Ok, I just watched the movie, "The Battle Of The Bulge". In it, supposedly they were using Tiger II tanks. However, they don't look anything like Tiger II tanks at all. Were they either Army surplus tanks that they used, or "stage props". And if they were "stage props", it seems that they could have made them look a little more like Tiger II's.
I also just wathced " Battle Of The Bulge". 3 days ago. I figured with the the cast it should be a great movie. I thought it was kind of dry though. not even much action. I'm not sure on the technical stuff, but i'm sure someone here will elaborate on that for you. What about the uniforms guys? were they accurate?
I am assuming that you are in reference to the movie "Battle Of The Bulge" from the 1960's pitting Henry Fonda as the U.S. commander against Robert Shaw as the German commander. If so, the "German" tanks are U.S. surplus, M-47 Walker "Bulldogs" with their incorrect Balkenkreuz insignia on their turrets. Of course, one must give the producers of the film due credit for trying as this was way before the use of "cde's", or computer digital effects, such as used in "Saving Private Ryan". One scene though that stands out as rather eye catching ( at least to me ), is when Shaw's character, after being told that his "men" are "mere boys" incites them to sing the Panzerleid, invigorating them to carry out the attack. Even Shaw's driver, the German character actor who always played the grizzled German "alte hase" ( what IS his name! ) gets in to the singing of the song. Great moment of cinematic history. Bill
Martin - Yes, thank you. I do believe that is the name of the actor. He also played a great role in "The Longest Day" as the poor German officer attempting to convince his superiors that the Allied Invasion was in fact coming ashore at Normandy while the shells landed all about him and his bunker. Bill
I have loved this movie since I first got to see it some 20 odd years ago. Hans-Christian Blech is also in Decision Before Dawn as "Tiger" and is in The Bridge At Remagen as the Alte Hauptmann/school-teacher. But not much action in this movie?
Guys : Isn't this the movie with the ridiculous ending and that being oil/fuel drums being rolled down on the so-called Tigers to blow them away ? think the producers lost the feel for reality and couldn't think of a better end. Altenwolf
Yes you're right Erich. Then again, it's just another war film for entertainment very loosely edged around something that really happened, i.e. there was a second world war. You know the way films have a adult content rating, wouldn’t it be nice if they had a historical accuracy rating as well? Say from excellent to utter bollocks! No.9
Hey Thanks. It's good to know that they are M-47's and that the Tiger II tank design did not change after the war. I'm not sure, but those tanks look very similar to the ones used in the movie, "Patton". Am I correct?
Not very accurate no--but it was the first war movie I ever saw that had actual German singing in it--their version of Die Panzer Leid--meaning the same first verse sung over and over. Also--ya gotta love the star power. Robert Shaw (Hessler) Robert Ryan (Ami General) Charles Bronson (Ami Major) Henry Fonda (Ami Lt.Col) Dana Andrews (Ami Colonel) Telly Savalas (Sgt Guffey Sherman Tank Commander) James McArthur( Young and not so experianced Ami Lieutenant) George Montgomery ((Experianced Ami Sergeant who is loyal to his Lt (MacArthur)) Hans-Christian Bleth (Hesslers driver/Sergeant) Karl-Otto Alberty (Major Dieple--Hesslers 2nd in command) Just to name who I could off hand.
I've seen it plenty of times as well Carl, and would watch it again. I do think it would be good for films to have a 'historical accuracy code' rating though. What's wrong in pointing out a film is fiction but an excellent story? People don't accept novels being promoted as history do they, (yeah, OK there's Ambrose)? The best accurate ones might even find their way into education? The other day, TV showed 'Secret Mission', a behind the lines film made in 1942. The film isn't great and was obviously a morale booster, but, at the end is a paratroop raid on a German installation. The paratroops were unbadged and wore soft headgear instead of helmets. What really caught my eye was that they wore toggle ropes! This was a hallmark of Commandos and the first paratroops were No.2 Commando. Maybe they were portraying Commandos landed by parachute? Small item but interesting. No.9
a historical rating sounds like a keen idea 9 ! also whether the flick follows true events or a novel or someone's dream/fantasy might be of help....with all the graphics today it would not be hard to represent a true WW 2 battle or bio of some WW 2 personalities. But what sells ? you have to have the big stud and the babe to make the story palatabile in this day and age.....sad but true. Crock !!! ~E
Veritas, all you say Erich. Good point with computer generation, look what has been achieved with the best sci-fi and fantasy films like Lord of the Rings. Impossible sets, settings and action but incredibly realistic. I believe actual events are plenty dramatic enough, but probably the out-of-action life of many real characters wouldn’t make good box-office? Accepted films are made to make money, and do so by being entertaining and having big names in them. Accepted the producers (and public) like human interest and often romance. However, when real battle events are changed to keep focus on the themed unit, I find it spits on the actual men who made the achievement. If someone makes up a good story, put it out as such. I was watching a documentary recently which followed troops in Iraq. They were talking to some American Marines who made some very interesting comments. My favourite was from a Sergeant who said; “When they make a film about this, they should make it 6 hours long with 15 minutes of action and the rest of the time, soldiers just sitting around throwing rocks!” No.9
Hi 9--I agree--that its not anywhere near being accurate but--I just get a kick out of watching it because of the star power the movie has. Some of the sounds even seeme cheesy at best but--still isn't too bad. As for movies having that kind of rating--I think the moviemakers would be too lazy in trying a system like that out. I have major doubts on whats written--at times and thanks to ambrose none the less. I can only wish the more accurate books would make their way in education but usually they don't really seem to. I think they only wanna rely on books that were writtten or published back in the 1950s and 1960s--which always have the same mistakes in them like the classical: "Peiper at Malmedy" photo when the soldiers showed were in fact a Waffen SS NCO ((As you can clearly see he is an NCO by his collar tresse and cap design)) and thankfully--someone FINALLY pointed that out and in recent books--I noticed the caption was finally changed. I have heard of that film "Secret Mission" and if i'm not badly mistaken--I think its already out on DVD or will soon be released. I agree with you Eirch--I think the "babes" need to be kept out of the story unless she is absolutely essential to it.
Re a ‘Historic Accuracy Code’ Carl, I’d say don’t let the film makers have anything to do with it. Give the job to respective country’s Board of Control/Censorship, the people who rate films for adult content etc. Have them get accredited historians to do the grading. I’d also say biggest demerit marks should be for wholesale historical inaccuracy, as in units who never performed the task/s depicted, more than inaccuracies in uniform or equipment. I think some slack has to be cut for the film-makers. If they’re dealing with a real occurrence involving say 10 Tigers, and they come up with 10 tanks which are roughly similar but not identical, I would treat that less harsh than a depiction of them battling say US armour when in reality they encountered Canadian artillery! Something that may get overlooked at times about 1940’s and 50’s books, is that much information was still classified at the time they were written, and even if an author had personal knowledge of a classified action, he was prohibited from disclosure. For example, while much of Britain’s WWII documents have been released under the 30 year rule (amendment to the 50 year rule), some items are still withheld under the hundred year rule. No.9
The only trouble I can see in having a code as suggested is that it might break ther movie as well--meaning--might scare off too many potential ticket buyers. Personally--I like the idea but--I think the only way it could work would be after this movie was taken off the big screen. People in this country are law suit happy. I see your point in the older published books and we also have the 50 years rule here as well. Problem is--is that ((at least in the South Texas library system)) that 98% of the history books on their shelves are books of 30-40 or more year vintage--and nothing gets replaced except on rare occasions. Case in point: I go to the Northwest Branch of the Corpus Christi libraries (there are several here in the city) and it was the only one in the last several years--that bought two new books on ww2. This is the excellent 2 volume series about the Battle of the Bulge in Luxembourg by Roland Gaul. I was able to buy vol 2 which is from the German point of view--but cannot get vol 1--which is from the American PoV. Well the library got both volumes so I had to check out vol 1--which I had for about 6 months (three months legally and 3 months overdue) till I finally had the time to finish reading the book.
