Could Japan have attacked sooner than December 1941?

Following the decision to go to war, could Japan have launched their attacks on Pearl Harbour and SE Asia any sooner than they did or was December the earliest they could get the required forces trained and assembled.

If so when could they have attacked and what would have been the major differences given deployment of the Allied forces (sea, air and ground) at this time assuming no change on the Allied side (not sure how likely this would be though)?

 

Some random thoiughts rather impaired by my daily liter of Bushmills: Would the USN aircraft carriers been moored at Pearl, the B-17s sent to Pearl and the Phillipines been available?..Imagine what the development (not the final outcome, which would never be in doubt..)of the Pacific War would have been if the USN carriers were at Pearl when the Japs attacked?...

 

mmm, at first the pacific fleet will suffer a bad day, probably eliminated, but remember that Yamamoto knew the capabilities of the american industries,at the end the allies will crush the japan empire, by sheer numbers and by technlogies

 

That is precisely what l infered when l stated :" Imagine what the development (not the final outcome, which would never be in doubt.....



"As l walk through the Valley of Death l shall see no evil, speak no evil and fear no evil, for l am the meanest SOB in the Valley"
(unknown American bard)

 

well, the american will have to start from "0" to rebuild the pacific fleet, and at the same time try not to stop the japs advances thru the pacific, but to delay, in this case they will be in a thigth situation since they have 2 war fronts, but the pacific will be very suceptible to japs incursion since they do not have a sizable fleet to oppose the japs, at the same time they have to protect the panama canal, vital but vulnerable and if the loose it the will be a major setback, just imagine that they have to split the atlantic fleet to cover the looses in hawai, and if we add the entering of germany to the fight, well , your guess is as good as mine :bang:

 

well, the american will have to start from "0" to rebuild the pacific fleet, and at the same time try not to stop the japs advances thru the pacific, but to delay, in this case they will be in a thigth situation since they have 2 war fronts, but the pacific will be very suceptible to japs incursion since they do not have a sizable fleet to oppose the japs, at the same time they have to protect the panama canal, vital but vulnerable and if the loose it the will be a major setback, just imagine that they have to split the atlantic fleet to cover the looses in hawai, and if we add the entering of germany to the fight, well , your guess is as good as mine
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Ok-but remember in 1941, before PEarl Harbor the USN had ordered or under construction 12 additional carriers 7 fast battleships, ,48 light cruisers under construction or in opder, 171 lare destroyers 31 submarines, as well as scores of auxliaries-etc. It wold have been rough-no question about that.. The Japanese disregarded ASW vessels in their naval reamament programs, so the 100 or so subs on hand or under construction for the USN would have played havock wit their lines of communication(as they did in fact in WW2 they they starved the Jap industries to death) long vefore they goit even close. to the Pacific Coast or the Panama Canal.. Anyhow, those are my thoughts on the matter.

 

also let's say that the japs instead of attaking pearl harbor, they invade it, so the americans no longer control the pacific, no fleet and no base, after this they will go after australia, and in doing so also defeated the british fleet,so no more british bases,they will try to take or at least damage beyond repair the panama canal, after all this victories they will try to secure all the new conqered territories, but will not let their guard down, instead harass the americans in their own territory, attacking sisco and san diego, or make an battlegroup bombard those cities, obviously with an extended aircover by means of the carriers, to try to damage the bases and brake the moral of the population, at the same time, wait in the philipines or in the magellan strait the new american fleet,in the mean time at the home waters, increase the production of planes and construction of new carriers and sub
( so what do you think?)

 

If that were to happen, the US would either be badly mauled before winning inevitably. Maybe they wouldnt even win if the population had enough of the war and just gave up. (Vietnam style).

 

They didn't have the shipping to invade Hawaii and SE Asia at the same time.


Some Pacific themes from Bob Henneman's battlecruiser board

http://p069.ezboard.com/falltheworldsba ... =750.topic

http://p069.ezboard.com/falltheworldsba ... =861.topic

http://p069.ezboard.com/falltheworldsba ... =710.topic

http://p069.ezboard.com/falltheworldsba ... =690.topic

 

Some answers from the Warship1 board

http://p216.ezboard.com/fwarships1discu ... 6530.topic

 

For one thing, if they had attacke dHawai in 1940, the fleet would not have been at Pearl Harbor, but at San Diiego-Hawai migh have , but allen-but as someone in that warship forum noted, two o the Jap air carriers were not deady prior to Pearl Harbor...that would have left a much larger US fleet-with substantial number if very effective fleet type-Submarines ready to pounce and destroy Japonese shipping, -as, indeed they did throughout the Pacific war...

 

Basically, there is nothing that the Japanese could have actually done in order to do anything beyond extend the war by 6 months to a year at the most... (IMHO)

 

I tend to agree,based not so much on their arsenal but on their existing oil supplies sand steel the US embargo on scrap steel and oil actually drove them to attack at Pearl Harbor..and the Netherlands East Indies with their oil fields..