Need some help if possible. Trying to do a bit of research on the British Tank Crusader 3. I need info as well as where it was used, how, etc, if possible. Thanks, Tomba
Not too many of those, only 144 produced between May and July 1942. The 6th Armoured Division took a number of Crusader IIIs to Tunisia in November 1942, but I'm not familiar with any specific actions they took part in.
Ah, ty. I thought they were mostly in NA. Great info! Btw, I found they have 57mm guns (6lbers) Tomba
Yes, the Crusader III had the 6pdr and increased armour ( 7-51mm, compared to 7-49mm ( II ) and 7-40mm ( I ) ). The size of the turret turntable was increased to give room for the larger rounds and the turret was slightly longer and higher than on previous versions. The crew was reduced to three men, meaning the Commander had to double as a loader. Specifications : Crew : 3 Combat weight : 19.812kg Power-to-weight ratio : 20.2 bhp/ton Lenght : 5.98m, width : 2.64m, height : 2.24m Engine : Nuffield Liberty Mk.III/IV V12, watercooled, 340 Bhp at 1500 rpm. Fuel capacity : 500 litres + 136 litres in auxilliary tank. Max speed : 43 km/h Max range : 177 km on main tank Fording depth : 96cm Armament : 6pdr 7cwt QF Mk.III ( 57mm ), co-axial 7.92mm Besa aircooled MG. Ammunition : AP, APC, APCBC, HE Muzzle velocity : 853 m/sec Max effective range : 1830m Ammunition stowage : 65 rounds Gun depression/elevation : +20/-12.5 degrees ( from 'Crusader Cruiser 1939-45' by David Fletcher )
Daft question, but isn't a 7.92mm Mg a bit unusual for a British Tank, or were they really confident of capturing Axis stocks against Rommel's Afrika Korps?
quite a few british tanks had a 7.92mm Besa. Humber, Daimler, Vikers, Matilda and the Churchill. Are you thinking of the german 7.62? FNG
No, I always understood that the standard British Rifle calibre cartridge was the .303 or 7.7mm, the standard German Rifle calibre cartridge was 7.92mm, Russian 7.62mmR, and the US .30-06 (About 7.62mm). That's why it seemed odd to me to equip a British tank with something other than a .303/7.7mm.
The Vickers .303 was the principal MG type used by British tanks, until it was replaced by the Besa 7.92mm. The Vickers was used on some of the early tanks ( Infantry Tanks I and II, Cruiser Tanks A9, A10 and A13 and Light Tank Mk.VIB ), but was too bulky and its water jacket too vulnerable for AFV use.* The Besa 7.92mm entered service in 1939 and was used by almost every British AFV during WWII. * 'Armoured Firepower' by Peter Gudgin
OK, and I'm certainly not doubting you, but why go for an unusual calibre like that? After all the British had Brownings rechambered/built in .303 for the RAF, why cause yourself logistical problems by having to send out two types of rifle-calibre ammunition to a given division (.303 for Brens/Lee-Enfields, 7.92 for the Besas)? Seems a bit daft, but it's certainly not beyond the British to make a decision like that. Were the Besa's just ill-suited to re-chambering? Or was it simply not worth the effort (A "Why fix what's not broken?" attitude)?
I believe the besa was a Czech design, also like the bren? With their tanks as well the Czech's seem to have had a good military industry. Anyway 7.92mm seems to be a very common calibre for medium MG's and it might have been a lot of hassle to redisgn the stuff for our 303 ammo FNG
The Besa 7.92mm MG was developed from the Czeck ZB vz.37 if I'm not mistaken. The Brits even made a scaled up version, the Besa HMG, intended to replace the Vickers HMG. The Besa HMG had a calibre of 15mm, which seems more odd to me, but it entered service as well and was used with a number of armoured cars and a couple of light tanks.
It was basically a question of time - the Besa resulted from an urgent requirement and so the Brits, remembering all of the hassle they had in adapting the Browning and Bren guns to .303, decided not to bother and kept it in the original Czech 7.92x57 calibre instead. This decision was made easier by the fact that armoured units had their own supply chains so they wouldn't get mixed up with any other MG ammo. Tony Williams: Military gun and ammunition website and discussion forum
The Czech 15mm vz60 was adopted by the Brits to replace the .5" Vickers, which was a lot more powerful than the .303. This saw some use in AFVs (Matilda 1, Mk VI light tank) as well as a few other uses. The 15mm Besa was much more powerful, but was too big and heavy to be easy to manipulate in a manual turret, so it only saw limited use. The pic below is from the Ammo Photo Gallery on my website. It shows the .5" Vickers (12.7x81), .55 Boys anti-tank (13.9x99B) and 15mm Besa (15x104) next to some other rounds used in early-WW2 light AFVs. You can judge the relative power of the guns by the size of the ammo. Tony Williams: Military gun and ammunition website and discussion forum
The Besa was a modified Czech ZB 1937 machine gun. In 1937 BSA and the Czech manufacturer signed a contract for a “license production(?)” in Britain. Due to technical difficulties with the rim of the .303 cartridge the calibre –German 7.92*57mm like all Czech rifles/machine guns- was not changed to .303. Round about 60,000 cal. 7.92 and 3,200 cal. 15mm BESAs were made.
