Dresden's WWII death toll 18,000-25,000

Dresden's WWII death toll 18,000-25,000




DRESDEN, Germany, Feb. 14 (UPI) -- The number of people killed in the Allied bombing of Dresden, Germany, during World War II was likely less than 25,000, an expert panel says.
The raids between Feb. 13 and Feb. 15, 1945, set off a firestorm that destroyed the center of the city. Historians previously had put the number of dead anywhere from 25,000 to 135,000.
A commission that includes historians and archivists says that in four years of work 18,000 deaths have been confirmed, Deutsche Welle reports. The researchers say they have no reason to assume the final tally will be significantly higher by the time they complete their work this year.
They have been using burial records and other official documents and eye witness accounts of the bombing. The commission said the deaths of refugees in Dresden were recorded along with those of residents, exploding one theory that thousands of people were killed without being counted.
The bombing of a historic city famous for its Baroque architecture was one of the most controversial Allied actions in Europe. The bombing was witnessed by Kurt Vonnegut, then a U.S. soldier who had been captured by the Germans. He wrote about it in several novels, notably "Slaughterhouse Five."

Dresden's WWII death toll 18,000-25,000 - UPI.com

 

That's a wide variation..

 

Well,

it is a lot less variation than previously mentioned figures of 20,000-30,000 and max 250,000-300,000.

The bombing scared Churchill for some reason afterwards, perhaps he was already thinking about the press headlines....

 

How on earth can the estimates be so varied? This is a destroyed city...not a wide expanse of cities towns, and villages in Russia...

 

Probably one word for the max figures: (Göbbels´) propaganda.

 

I am thinking David Irving or some neonazi. But isn't exaggerating losses pretty much increasing the image that "we aren't too good at defending the Reich?" more so than "oh, those bad allies".

 

By that time, with every city of any note being bombed into rubble it was more "advantageous" to portray the allied bombing as "criminal terrorist" acts, and to "stiffen" the spine of Germans against the forthcoming complete destruction of the Nazi regime. David Irving was more than happy to use the larger figure, in his attempt to put "fresh lipstick on the old whore" of Nazism in an attmept at making them the victims.

 

The casualties sound so low, doesnt make sense. But i guess that if the professionals have done some digging then it must have some credibility.

When they rebuilt Dresden did they build it in its classic style ?

When a city goes up in flames would it be not be reasonable to estimate 100,000s have died in the inferno.

 

The casualties at 30,000 would be ca. half of the Blitz casualties, if you wanna compare the figures.

http://www.ww2f.com/battle-europe/13308-blitz-casualties.html

 

In "classic" Soviet Socialist Modern style. Many damaged historic landmarks were demolished by the authorities instead of being restored. The Soviet Union wasn't exactly interested in preserving German cultural heritage after the war.

After German reunification some efforts to restore the city included rebuilding the Frauenkirche and Neumarkt Square.

 

Hopefully the final word but I am not sure....

BBC News - Up to 25,000 died in Dresden's WWII bombing - report

Up to 25,000 people died in the Allied bombing of Dresden during World War II - fewer than often estimated, an official German report has concluded.

The Dresden Historians' Commission published its report after five years of research into the 13-15 February 1945 air raid by Britain and the US.

The study was aimed at ending an ongoing debate on the number of casualties in the German city.

 

They were already done! That someone didn't have the brains to surrender - to the Western Allies is preposterous. Well no, we will just hang out, soldier on, and wait for the Soviets to grab more of our people as well as many more in Eastern Europe.

From The BBC News 1:

2. BBC

Political back room deal, at least that is what it smells like. Allies had to throw Stalin a cookie (many cookies) since he shouldered all of that tough fighting alone (except for Lend Lease and assorted diversions) from Barbarossa until; you name it - El Alamein, Tobruk, Torch, Sicily? Uncle Joe was always looking for more help. In Churchill's Grand Alliance, and throughout his six volume WW 2 chronicle, a BIG consideration was always about how many divisions could be drawn off the Ostfront to the West, N. Africa, Italy etc. Stalin and Molotov played that tune all day long to humble Churchill and FDR. IMHO.

 

Hello to all. This is a topic in germany where the public an the Goverment do not like to discuss. Why ? Because ( IMHO) not to scary the rest of the EU, the former Allied and so on.
The figure 25.000 is only a figure, a political correct answer to those who would like to seek the truth and want to know more.
Remember and decide for yourself: Dresden was a Rear Front line City, the vast majority of fleeing civilians went trough it, the Wehrmacht used it as Key support City all support, all divisional movement went trough the city, all suppor trains, to and from the fronline went trough Dresden. And now decide if you follow the correctness Figure of 25.000 or the inconvenient figure of several hundred thousand death. Think for yourself when you see the pictures of the devastating bombardement, Even more strange is, that eye witnesses told of english fighters strafing civilians during the attack and afterwards. Even those statements are today contested. The histrorians say did not happen , the witnesses say it did. You know what ? I believe the witness and not historians. Historians by all means alter history . My point of view.

 

Hi Baupioneer, The 25.000 /35.000 is generally admitted nowadays both in Germany and abroad and not only in politically correct circles. The 100.000 figures stem from he Soviet period and are regulary brought to surface by historians who challenge the lower figures, possibly to get a name . The 25.000 figure is based on the number of graves and death certificates to which is added a certain number of MIA and unknown. The exact figure will never be known, but the figures enumerated in the 1950s are exagerated and no longer challenged by the majority of historians.
whatever the figures are the amount will always be too high , but the same could be said about Rotterdam , Warschau, Caen , and so many others, no matter who bombed these places. it was war and things happened. What happened to the Dresden people is terrible, what happened to the young Raf crews who gave their lives for their country is just as terrible.

 

Skipper,
Your words of wisdom never cease to amaze. You express touchy sentiments very well. Salute, two!

 

There is nothing PC :a report from march 1945 by the police chief of Dresden,is giving 18375 dead.The claim of several hundredthousands dead is BS.
Source :human losses in WWII :news

 

You're making me blush. Thanks for the kind words.

 

They had no real motive to surrender since the Allies would only give Germany an unconditional surrender as early as January 1944, it was perhaps a bit premature at this stage for an unconditional surrender since there was still quite a bit to come (in hindsight). Further, the Allies wanted the war to "come home", so the "stabbed in the back" myth wouldn't start again. There was also some controversy around Germany's actual surrender and the Soviets wanting it handled differently so they kept on fighting.

A general will only surrender if he has the motives of others in mind, Hitler did not. Mere days before he committed suicide he still blamed the armies and people of Germany for failing him.

 

That was just wishful thinking. I'm still angry that Von Stauffenberg's bomb failed (and the earlier attempts too) and the conspirators got the piano wire, suicide option or the firing squad. Obviously after that debacle, no one in the bunker or elsewhere dared take a run at Herr Megalomaniac.

 

It's true that it was perhaps wishful thinking on the part of the Allies but the sentiment of an unconditional surrender was echoed many times. Perhaps the only thing that could have changed their mind was if Germany turned things around and a lengthy stalemate or near Allied loss was on the table although that's for a different discussion.

It is indeed tragic what happened with Stauffenberg's plot, his story is also tragic in hindsight when you consider death was waiting for him either way whether he left or stayed in the room to make sure things went according to plan (he was originally going to but faced pressure from other conspirators who wanted him to live since they wanted him to lead Germany).