From the BBC There was alarm in some quarters after the Polish president said the reason his country did not have a larger population - and therefore greater voting power - was that so many Poles were killed by Germans in World War II. Danish Prime Minister Anders Fogh Rasmussen said it was an unfortunate statement and a distraction. "It's an absurd idea to base today's decisions on a very tragic history," he said.
There's more.. The proposed new voting system would link voting strength to population, so Poland sees the question of its war dead as highly relevant. ""We are only demanding one thing, that we get back what was taken from us," Prime Minister Jaroslaw Kaczynski told national radio this week. European Commission President Jose Manuel Barroso Commission chief Barroso wants more efficient EU decision-making "If Poland had not had to live through the years of 1939-45, Poland would today be looking at the demographics of a country of 66 million." The country's population is currently 38m, compared to Germany's 82m. Since Poland has 27 votes to Germany's 29 under the existing system, Germany would be the biggest beneficiary of the proposed change. Rubbing salt into the wound, Mr Kaczynski added to his comments about the "unimaginable injury" inflicted on Poland in 1939 that "Poles like Germans, while Germans do not like Poles". For the last few weeks, he and his identical twin, President Lech Kaczynski, have been talking about "death" being better than "capitulation" to Poland's EU neighbours on the voting question. Poles were used to fighting alone, they pointed out, for example in the anti-communist underground. Their claims of being isolated and ignored, or not treated equally, are partly true.
Poland was not the only country to loose its citizens in ww2. Also the demographics of 66 milllion ( I assume ) is based on a population which would stay in Poland....... As every country has citizens which migrate to other parts of the world ( Eastern Europeans being a large part after the collapse of the Soviet Union )I can hardly imagine no Poles moving out. I dont think this is smart politics. No wonder the EU is slowly getting fed up with Poland.
So, just what would this guy "base today's decisions" on? The aforementioned SWAGPOOYA? PFM? Devine intervention? A Queja board? The past is and should be our guide to doing better in the future. Forgetting or ignoring it is an absurd idea.
I really hope the poles will be reasonable , they have less than 3% of the Union population and would want to have more power than Germany? I don't completely blame the Poles, it's Europes mistake not to have etablished a Constitution before letting new countries join . Some follow the rules such as Slovenia which does very well and has introduced the Euro as their currency. But because of this anti-german and anti -European postion from Poland, other countries are getting reluctant. France and Holland who are two of the six founders have voted against the constitution, England has to face growing eurosceptism and now we have this with poland. Some of my tax money goes to the new 2004 members, they shouldn't forget that without Union money they would still have statefarms and drive Polski Fiats.
As I understand some nations in Europe pay quite alot of money to keep the system going on. Isn´t Germany one of them? Like the US finances the UN? Is Poland going for all there ís or just the power position because if you are in a major position you also pay for your position. I might be wrong but I recall that Germany is also "paying for its share" so it is not that simple, I think.
Germany and France are among major payers of the Union (they pay more than what they get back) . Britiain also, but it has negociated a better deal that was obtained under Margaret Thatcher "the famous I want my money back deal" . Holland, Belgium and others also pay a lot for other Union countries . Poland gets far more than what they pay. That's okay, as it's part of the game and when they are wealthier they will probably contribute more to help other countries. In the meantime I think the poles should be less agressive. I believe they are more cooperative now, I just watched the news and heard that Merkel met Kazynski 3 times today and that the Poles are quite positive.
Hmmmm...I remember a group of Poles 'invading' this Forum two or three years ago and driving us all to distraction with their conviction that Poland actually won WWII.... Seriously, it gave many of us a good insight into how deeply these things are felt in Poland and I think there's plenty more to come for EU politicians.
You were right Martin and plenty more propositions came from our politicians during the night. Fist of all a compromise has been achieved, incredible but true! Sarkozy and Merkel have worked their asses off. Tony Blair has consented providing Britain would not have to comply to a judiciary decison even if there is a majority form other states. Sarkozy has made a gesture towards the 55% "no" position by ensuring that competion within the Union would be "a goal to be achieved" not "mandatory". And the poles would be overepresented in regards of their 33 million population until 2014 or 2017. Junckers (Luxemburg) was absolutely exhausted and did not believe it could be done . I must sya I'm impressed by the team Sarkozy Merkel because whne Sarkozy came up with the idea nobody believed it would be possible and he convinved everybody to talk about it. The Merkel saw the poles up to three times a day. Blair and Sarkozy get on really well together. Hey if things go well, the Union will have a constitution in 2009. This will be absolutely historical. We will start with a Union of 27 countries and we will have more soon.
