I've had the same argument many times with my other half (wife, not schizophrenia) and is always a dead end: Did the allies knew about the camps and what happened inside? If they knew, why they didn't do/say anything? Comments?
I haven't checked any documents but I have memories of older (now dead) relatives and their friends telling me about the first combat units to reach some of the camps - the troops couldn't believe what was happening in them or why the inmates were in such bad condition, even after several explanations. IIRC there were several near-breakdowns amongst the troops when they finally understood what the camps were for. So at one level: no, and I assume if the troops didn't know then the general public didn't either. Can't say about the command and political levels though, I don't know.
The general public and the troops knew nothing. However I do believe that the government knew. By the time the allies were over running the camps the Russians had already pressed far into poland, their had been numerous escapers and the diplomatic news would have told of the mass migrations of Jew and others from France, Italy, Belgium and other places. Added to this the surveylance and airal photography of the regions that would take place. The government hushed it because they could do little about it and the information would not have been 100% accurate/proven and would have been upseting FNG
Yeah, I think the real question should be: WHEN did the allied leadership find out, and what did they do? Like you I believe that some of the higher-ups must have known something earlier than the troops' aarival at the camps.
I don't know if the Allied commanders knew exactly what was going on in those camps. I'm sure they heard bits and pieces from German POWs or camp escapees (if there even were any) but did not find the real truth until the soldiers brought back evidence of it firsthand. Knowing about the camps sooner would probably been revealed to the public as well, which could ruin the credibility of the various Nazi sympotheizers in the Allied countries. The Russians surely knew of the camps before the other Allies, but with the Soviet execution of 6,000 Polish civilians back in 1939, maybe they were worried of the Allies pinning it on them? These people most likely knew nothing of the camps. All they knew was that the Germans didn't particulary like Jews, so it was time to get out.
Maybe they didn't know hard facts but just the rumours. That would be why they didn't tell anyone as they had no evidence. FNG
People always bring this up but seriously, how extensive was the aereal reconnaisance over areas of which the Allies weren'even sure they contained anything at all? Wouldn't an aereal photograph of a KZ seem like just another POW camp?
They must of knew after 1943 however, In 1943 300 inmates successfully escaped from the concentration camp in Sobibor , eastern Poland , at least one of those people must of informed the allies.
rurmors vs facts there were unconfirmed rurmors that reached the allies but no confirmred reports about the death camps. part of the problem was an unwillingness to believe such a thing was really happening. there seems to be evidence that the pope knew about the camps and that he kept quiet to protect the church. even if the allies knew for sure about the camps there was almost nothing that they could have done except tell the world and that would have done little good anyway so the question really is a moot one.
I personally think that some knowledge of the Nazis' plans were known by the time of the Casablanca conference and played some part in Roosevelt's "unconditional surrender" statement. I don't think anyone really comprehended the maginitude of what was happening or had much ability to do anything about it. Even the first reports that came in as the Soviets overran camps in 1944 were downplayed as Soviet propoganda in the west.
Well British top brass did know. Read this story of Witold Pilecky a guy who had himself arrested so he could be sent in Auschwitz: http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=15456&start=0
Just a minor quibble here. The camps in Poland were extermination camps, not concentration camps. Concentration camps were like very tough prisons, people were sent there as punishments for crimes as determined by the Nazi State, executions were carried out, deaths from beatings, illness, mistreatment and starvation were certainly commonplace, but the crucial difference is that the purpose of the camps wasn't to kill people. Extermination camps (Auschwitz, Sobibor, Treblinka) had the sole purpose of killing people. As many as possible, as quickly as possible. If you were sent to an extermination camp, you went there to die, the only real factor was time.
I've read once or twice that when reports of the extermination camps reached the Allies,they weren't immediately believed because such horrific cruelty was inconceivable.Understandable if you ask me.
The allies did know quite a lot. From 1941 onwards, the british intercepted and decoded german reports about mass executions of jews in occupied Russia. This of course had to be kept secret, not to give the germans indications that Enigma might be decoded.... Also allied legations in neutral countries informed their governements about the massacres. In january 1943, the US legation informes Washington that in camps in Poland, at least 6000 deads a day are confirmed.... So the allies were quite well informed, unfortunately, there was few they could do about it....
IIRC they were asked (don't know who by!) to bomb the railways leading to the camps, but decided that this would effectively acheive nothing, and so did not.
I would say by the time of the Warsaw uprising that the Russians knew the whole story.. AND they knew of German treatment of Russian POW's , some of whom were sent to extermination camps..
Yeah, I believe it was the U.S. War Department who declared that bombing the railroads would be useless, the only way to save the Jews was by defeating the Nazis. From a book I was reading (The Course of American Diplomacy) it states that the US and British knew of the exterminations by August 1942, but neither country had an official reaction to it, maybe, as Castelot pointed out, to keep the code breaking abilities secret.
