Lend-Lease repayments

[Split from 'Worst plane of WW2']

Tiso wrote:

Indeed. Before the war was over the US transferred to the Allied nations around 50 billion dollars worth of US taxpayer assets, only a small percentage of which was ever repaid.
How's that for marketing?

 

Bermudas, curtiss SBC-4, H-75, Buffalos were paid in gold ( they were ordered by franch before the colapsse and brits had to take over the order. And that was before land-lease.

 

Tiso wrote:

I understand that. However, the net transfer from the US to the Allied nations was huge. The small amount of payment received prior to the US entry into the war was far exceeded by the amount of aid shipped without payment over the next 4 years.

 

Soviets were paying in gold.

 

Out of interest, as this has cropped up on the Forum from time-to-time, what are the figures for payment & re-payment? Country-by-country, if possible!

 

Ricky wrote:

It is difficult to pin down figures but here is what I have gleaned reading various sources over the years;

Total lend-lease to all countries from the US = 48-50 billion
Lend-lease to UK and CW = 31 billion
Lend-lease to USSR = 11-15 billion

As to repayment, most debts were simply forgiven and written off .
The UK made the largest effort by far to repay some fraction. As I recall they repaid something like 650 million in cash plus rights to some Carribean bases.
The Soviets needless to say made no attempt to repay any of their share.
A "settlement" was eventually reached with the Soviets in 1971 AFAIK.
It was political window dressing and did not involve actually repaying the debt owed.

 

Thanks!

 

Now - to discuss further!

Apparently, 8 billion (figure is in dollars, AFAIK) was given in kind to American troops in Europe.
Does that count?
If so, 1/6 of the British debt was repaid before the end of the war...

 

From

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/2WWlendlease.htm

(10) Harold Wilson, Memoirs: 1916-1964 (1986)

Lend-Lease also involved Britain's surrender of her rights and royalties in a series of British technological achievements. Although the British performance in industrial techniques in the inter-war years had been marked by a period of more general decline, the achievements of our scientists and technologists had equalled the most remarkable eras of British inventive greatness. Radar, antibiotics, jet aircraft and British advances in nuclear research had created an industrial revolution all over the developed world. Under Lend-Lease, these inventions were surrendered as part of
the inter-Allied war effort, free of any royalty or other payments from the United States. Had Churchill been able to insist on adequate royalties for these inventions, both our wartime and our post-war balance of payments would have been very different.

The Attlee Government had to face the consequences of this surrender of our technological patrimony, but there was worse to come. Congress had voted Lend-Lease until the end of the war with Germany and Japan and no longer. When the European war ended, most people expected the conflict with Japan to last for another year or so. The atomic bombs on Nagasaki and Hiroshima ended that assumption. Almost within the hour, President Truman, unwillingly no doubt, but without any choice in the matter, notified Attlee that Lend-Lease was being cut off. At that time it was worth £2,000 million a year. There was no possible means of increasing our exports to the United States to earn that sort of sum. Britain was in pawn, at the very time that Attlee was fighting to exert some influence on the postwar European settlement. The only solution was to negotiate a huge American loan, the repayment and servicing of which placed a burden on Britain's balance of payments right into the twenty-first century.

From
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lend-lease


Earlier, the 1940 Destroyers for Bases Agreement had seen fifty obsolete destroyers transferred to the Royal Navy and the Royal Canadian Navy in exchange for base rights in the Caribbean.


From http://www.encyclopedia.com/html/l1/lendleas.asp


lend-lease
Related: United States History

arrangement for the transfer of war supplies, including food, machinery, and services, to nations whose defense was considered vital to the defense of the United States in World War II. The Lend-Lease Act, passed (1941) by the U.S. Congress, gave the President power to sell, transfer, lend, or lease such war materials. <b>The President was to set the terms for aid; repayment was to be “in kind or property, or any other direct or indirect benefit which the President deems satisfactory.”</b> Harry L. Hopkins was appointed (Mar., 1941) to administer lend-lease. He was replaced (July) by Edward R. Stettinius, Jr., who headed the Office of Lend-Lease Administration, set up in Oct., 1941. In Sept., 1943, lend-lease was incorporated into the Foreign Economic Administration under Leo T. Crowley. In Sept., 1945, it was transferred to the Dept. of State. Lend-lease was originally intended for China and countries of the British Empire. In Nov., 1941, the USSR was included, and by the end of the war practically all the allies of the United States had been declared eligible for lend-lease aid. Although not all requested or received it, lend-lease agreements were signed with numerous countries. In 1942, a reciprocal aid agreement of the United States with Great Britain, Australia, New Zealand, and the Free French was announced. Under its terms a “reverse lend-lease” was effected, whereby goods, services, shipping, and military installations were given to American forces overseas. Other nations in which U.S. forces were stationed subsequently adhered to the agreement. On Aug. 21, 1945, President Truman announced the end of lend-lease aid. Arrangements were made—notably with Great Britain and China—to continue shipments, on a cash or credit basis, of goods earmarked for them under lend-lease appropriations. Total lend-lease aid exceeded $50 billion, of which the British Commonwealth received some $31 billion and the USSR received over $11 billion. Within 15 years after the termination of lend-lease, settlements were made with most of the countries that had received aid, although a settlement with the USSR was not reached until 1972.

Bibliography: See W. F. Kimball, The Most Unsordid Act (1969).

 

Ricky wrote:

Good point. I intended to include in my last post but forgot:
Reverse lend-lease - food and supplies supplied to American soldiers serving overseas.
A dollar figure for this is even harder to nail down than for lend-lease but some estimates are as high as 8-10 billion dollars worth including Australia and New Zealand.
That certainly reduces the debt somewhat. I think that the good faith effort made by the UK to pay off the debt, as best they could, was sufficient for most Americans. The good feeling that most Americans had and continue to have for the Brits (despite the somewhat questionable reciprocity ) meant that there was little support for dragging an impoverished UK over the coals and trying to force them to pay dollar for dollar what was lent.

 

From
http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761 ... Lease.html

Lend-Lease, program of military and economic aid given by the United States to nations warring against the Axis powers in World War II. Despite the proclaimed neutrality of the U.S., Congress by the Lend-Lease Act of 1941 empowered President Franklin D. Roosevelt on behalf “of any country whose defense the President deems vital to the defense of the United States, to sell, transfer title to, exchange, lease, lend, or otherwise dispose of, to any such government any defense article” not expressly prohibited. The law originally authorized an appropriation of $1 million. The Office of Lend-Lease Administration, established in October 1941 to administer the act, was incorporated into the Foreign Economic Agency; in 1943 the office was transferred to the Department of State.

In addition to the United Kingdom, China, and the USSR, 35 other governments received lend-lease aid. They included the Netherlands, Belgium, and the Free French. By the Reciprocal Aid Agreement with the United Kingdom, the Free French, Australia, and New Zealand, popularly known as reverse lend-lease, American troops stationed overseas in return received material assistance from the signatory nations. By August 1945, when the war ended, lend-lease appropriations totaled about $48 billion. The U.S. had received more than $6 billion in reverse lend-lease. Arrangements for the repayments by the recipient nations were begun shortly after hostilities ceased. Except for the Soviet debt, of which less than one-third was repaid, repayment was virtually complete by the late 1960s. The U.S., in 1972, accepted an offer by the Soviet Union to pay $722 million in installments through 2001 to settle the indebtedness


From http://www.bartleby.com/65/le/lendleas.html


The Columbia Encyclopedia, Sixth Edition. 2001.

lend-lease


arrangement for the transfer of war supplies, including food, machinery, and services, to nations whose defense was considered vital to the defense of the United States in World War II. The Lend-Lease Act, passed (1941) by the U.S. Congress, gave the President power to sell, transfer, lend, or lease such war materials. The President was to set the terms for aid; repayment was to be “in kind or property, or any other direct or indirect benefit which the President deems satisfactory.” Harry L. Hopkins was appointed (Mar., 1941) to administer lend-lease. He was replaced (July) by Edward R. Stettinius, Jr., who headed the Office of Lend-Lease Administration, set up in Oct., 1941. In Sept., 1943, lend-lease was incorporated into the Foreign Economic Administration under Leo T. Crowley. In Sept., 1945, it was transferred to the Dept. of State. Lend-lease was originally intended for China and countries of the British Empire. In Nov., 1941, the USSR was included, and by the end of the war practically all the allies of the United States had been declared eligible for lend-lease aid. Although not all requested or received it, lend-lease agreements were signed with numerous countries. In 1942, a reciprocal aid agreement of the United States with Great Britain, Australia, New Zealand, and the Free French was announced. Under its terms a “reverse lend-lease” was effected, whereby goods, services, shipping, and military installations were given to American forces overseas. Other nations in which U.S. forces were stationed subsequently adhered to the agreement. On Aug. 21, 1945, President Truman announced the end of lend-lease aid. Arrangements were made—notably with Great Britain and China—to continue shipments, on a cash or credit basis, of goods earmarked for them under lend-lease appropriations. Total lend-lease aid exceeded $50 billion, of which the British Commonwealth received some $31 billion and the USSR received over $11 billion. Within 15 years after the termination of lend-lease, settlements were made with most of the countries that had received aid, although a settlement with the USSR was not reached until 1972. 1
See W. F. Kimball, The Most Unsordid Act (1969).


From http://www.answers.com/topic/lend-ndash-lease-act


Lend–Lease Act
Formerly 22 U.S.C. § 411 et seq. (1941), gave the president the authority to aid any nation whose defense he believed vital to the United States and to accept repayment “in kind or property, or any other direct or indirect benefit which the President deems satisfactory.” The principal recipients of aid during World War II were the British Commonwealth countries (about 63 percent) and the Soviet Union (about 22 percent), though by the end of the war more than 40 nations had received lend-lease help. Much of the aid, valued at $49.1 billion, amounted to outright gifts. Some of the cost of the lend-lease program was offset by so-called reverse lend-lease, under which Allied nations gave U.S. troops stationed abroad about $8 billion worth of aid. The Lend-Lease Act expired by its own terms following the end of World War II.

 

What that implies is that "repayment was virtually complete" means that the debt was repaid in full. The fact is that the payment that was "virtually complete " was the agreed upon payment which was a fraction of the actual debt..most sources I have seen in the past say about 650 million.

The figure associated with the Soviet agreement of the early seventies surprises me inasmuch as I have not seen an actual dollar figure quoted before. I will try to find a corroborating source, if possible.

 

The USA also received Spitfires and Mosquitoes from the UK. Not sure if we paid for them or if we just took it of the tab. We also received small arms parts such as magazines from Canada. I have some M1 Garand clips made by Dominion Arsenal- Quebec (marked DAQ).

I would also think that we knocked of some payments in exchange for US bases in Britain after the war.

I still believe the the USA didn't expect to see a return on most of that material. It was an investment in allowing the allies to wage war and winning the war was the payment.

 

Now, some people are going to be angry at me, but what can I do? I think what I think; I´m not going to be dumber for what I´ve writen here.

1. Which of the main Allied countries was most devastated after WW2 ?
2. Which of those countries lost most of work force in WW2 ?
3. Which contributed most decisively to annihilating Germany?
4. Which was the poorest before and after WW2 ?
5. Which country would YOU choose to settle in after WW2, if you were stateless?
6. Which would YOU certainly NOT settle in efter WW2 ?
7. Should this country´s contribution "in (terrible) kind" not be counted ? Why look at the world only in terms of money?

You are welcome to answer, but, I´m afraid, I know most of the answers anyways, even if you don´t.

Now, FDR was, even though a Democrat – a man who IMHO was glad or more than that, to spend taxpayers´ dollars on many various entreprises which was good for the business in USA, but less well for the taxpayers, but did he care a lot about it?

Can one not look at lend/lease as a big transfer from US taxpayer pockets to business pockets?
I know this sounds like hell, particularly to our American friends here, but – why not look at L/L from this point of view ALSO?
It´s cynical and ungrateful. I know. You needn´t write it.

But why not true, in a way?

 

Is the answer for every question USSR? :-? :-?

 

the man´s a genius!!! :lol:

 

Hmm, putting same answer to both #5 and #6 sounds like lying.

 

Hmmmmm,
I´m afraid, I´ll have to remove nr. 5, if the man´s a genius.
But no, Gents, I was actually lying. He´s probably not (Sorry PanzerMeister. Nice try, though.).
r. 5.´s role was to DEEPEN nr.6´s persuasiveness, if I may say so.

 

No doubt that the Ussr was the biggest contributor to the allied final victory.
It's largely known that 75-80 % of the destroyed german divisions were destroyed in Russia.
The readiness to sacrifice shown by the soviet peoples can only be admired.

I am however not a friend of saying that one certain country won WW2.
Soldiers from many countries fought for the allied cause, and they all gave their best and often their lives.
The sacrifices of smaller nations(like let's say Belgium for example)are much too often being forgotten.
Neither the US won WW2, nor did the USSR, but all the allies together.

 

Nobody said that USSR won anything , much less - alone. It lost the war, actually. The plans for the (outcome of the) war were different back in May 1941.

As to the Soviet people, whose bravery you admire.....
Well, my Grandpa who was in this business from the start would laugh reading this (sorry). People have been forced in most brutal and inhuman ways to fight to "the last drop of blood". Anything else would have meant death anyway, from the hands of NKVD´s "Zagrad-otriady".
Do you know what it was?
I´ll help. Behind the attacking troops there were trenches filled with "secret" police´s soldiers, whose only duty was to shoot anyone who refused to attack, however mindless it might have been.

If you refused anything in this war - you were the enemy of the nation and...... penalty batallion or death immediately.