MIAs??

i know there are still some MIas both from WWII and Vietnam. If not dead, where would they most likely be?

 

Incinerated beyond all hope of recognition?

Later

 

Eastern Europe in the German's case. I know all their MIAs from western Europe were accounted for several years ago.

Regards,
Gordon

 

i meant all USA MIAs

 

the unidentified MIAs, i am guessing, were really KIAs, deserters, or any other fate that may have befallen soldiers.
Here when you need me...

 

Well, you learn something every day.

Could you please explain to me who "unidentified MIAs" are?

No.9

 

Don't forget that WW1 and WW2 cemeteries contain many unidentified graves, 'known unto God'.

These contain bodies from which identification tags were missing and which were beyond recognition for whatever reason. Until identified, these men officially remain 'missing'.

 

Even though people are 'missing', they still have names and identities, otherwise they wouldn't know they were missing would they?

And if they knew where they were, they wouldn't be missing would they?

No.9

 

But they don't know who lies where...So the body is a MIA but that MIA is unidentified.

I am sure they have a name, serial number of all MIA's, but don't know where they are or where their bodies are buried.

In Amsterdam there are about 50 'Unknowns'. Some gravemarkers do state things like dates of death and/or rank. I am trying to see if some can be ID'd after all.

 

cant they use DNA tests to find out? These type soldiers are probably the ones who died in plane explosions, from landmines, or other horrible deaths that would incinerate them or blow them to pieces, making their dog tags unreadable if they could even be found.

 

Yeah - i was going to say that some of the MIAs are really KIAs - killed in a manner that you wouldnt be able to find enough of them to put into a coffin. I was reading a book about Unsung Heroes of WWII and one man picked up a Bazooka in the Ardennes and ran off after a tank and was never seen of again. The fate of the unknown hero was never discovered.

I was wondering if anyone has read Flyboys? Since the 8 Pilots who were captured on Chiwi Jima were executed and their fates held secret for 40+ Years, would they have been counted as MIA despite being killed in 44/45?

 

DNA testing would be hard. First of all you need family-members (parents, children) of the MIA to take DNA samples from to compare. That in itself is a very difficult job to achieve.

 

I would think so...No body = MIA, I think. "MIA, presumed dead"....

 

In the case of Deserters. Alone in Paris, there were estimated some 40,000 British deserters, some 50,000 American deserters and some 90,000 German deserters. I imagine some of them still live there and nearby--others might have been cought over the years or whatever the case may be.

 

Where did they go when they deserted the battle? and how could they have gotten out w/o getting caught?

 

Pairs is a huge city with many people in it. Most of the people are of white european heritage. Many were rounded up, some returned to duty by turning themselves in and others, thrived dealing on the Black market.

 

” But they don't know who lies where...So the body is a MIA but that MIA is unidentified.”

Missing In Action means exactly that. A serviceman can no longer be located, alive or dead. The remains of people buried in unnamed graves are also as described. Logic dictates in many cases the MIA’s are dead and their remains are in unnamed graves – but – that is only a logical presumption made under circumstantial evidence.

” DNA testing would be hard. First of all you need family-members (parents, children) of the MIA to take DNA samples from to compare.”

It’s harder than that, or so I am advised by experts as I have been involved with an ongoing matter of identifying remains. The cases reported in the news invariably involved confirming that a DNA sample left by a suspect is the same DNA as the suspect possesses. In other words it entails matching two samples. However, while genes are passed to a child by both parents, only specific strands of the mother’s DNA can be relied upon to have been passed on. Hence you need a DNA sample from the mother or possibly her daughter.

No.9

 

That's interesting. And that makes the process more complicated, obviously. So what they do is compare, preferrably a possible daughters strain with her fathers?? I see if I can find out if the Dutch Air Force uses this technique too, although US and Commenwealth remains will probably be ID'd by either USAF and RAF.

BTW, any news on the case of those three LW guys in that small churchyard that your friend is working on, you wrote about it a few months ago??

 

Stev I’m only being guided by the experts as I’m not. They have explained to me, which I accept, that the media is misrepresenting what can and can’t be done by DNA. Most of the TV/film stuff is about species like dinosaurs, the difference between man and ape etc. Big building blocks not too hard to work with. Knowing what to change or replace in an individuals DNA and get the expected result they are still working on.

A typical use of DNA in crime is say with a hair left behind. They can usually compare and say whether or not the hair came from the suspect as the DNA of both should match. To identify all members of the suspects extended family is apparently quite a bit harder and still being worked on.

The issue I am involved with is this. A brother and sister – same parents – each got married and each had one son only. The sister’s son was killed in the war and his remains need to be re-identified. Brother and sister and the sister’s husband are now dead, but the brother’s son is alive. His DNA is useless for the identification despite the fact he carries some family genes the same as his first cousin did.

They tell me they can use a mother’s DNA to identify her children, but not the fathers which is not conclusively reliable. If parents and children are alive there are other test they can no, but when dealing with bones, it’s DNA.


Re the 3 German Airmen, when my friend recovered his broken leg he went back to the church and spoke again to the Verger. They went out to the cemetery and re-examined the marker. Turned out it wasn’t of 3 German Airmen but 3 local sisters? The Verger said he thought that’s where the airmen where, and would have to go and look up the records. He has yet to get back in touch. Hence, we don’t know if there are 3 airmen or if there were and they have since been taken elsewhere?

No.9

 

Yes, that is correct.

The DNA of father and mother fuse, but the actual cell that is used for this is always the mother´s. And in that cell part ( outside the nucleus where the main DNA is ) are the mitochondrias, the energy sources for cell function. These have DNA which passes to the next generations as they are and only mutations can change them during evolution.