It has been a while since we discussed a controversial/sensitive issue, so I thought I'd throw one into the ring. Hopefully we can continue our tradition of mature & sensible debating... To kick us off, here is an intruging question: How much of the racism/persecution out there in is simply in the minds of the minorities? Let me give some examples to explain. Remarkably often, when a not-particularly-good non-British student gets a (deservedly) bad grade, they will say to anybody who will listen 'It is because I am black/asian/greek/whatever'. Interestingly, not-particularly-good British students who get a (deservedly) bad grade will often say 'my lecturer hated me' :roll: I used to work with somebody who was simply bad at their job. Whenever they were spoken to about it (and threatened with the sack if there was no improvement) they would angrily proclaim that they were being picked on because they were asian. AFAIK they are still employed. My old school had a govenor who, whenever one of their suggestons was rejected (as happened regularly to most of the govenors) would complain long & loud that it was simply because they were asian, and the board of govenors was racist. I know a half-cast person (the PC term is 'mixed-race', but they call themself half-cast, so there! ) who is unemployed, has few friends, and is not doing particularly well for themself. All this they (very bitterly) puts down to the fact that they are half-cast. It is possible that they have had some bad experiences in the past that has coloured their view, but latterly it is not true at all. Now, I'm sure that a percentage of these type of claims are just people trying to win an advantage by whatever means possible, but some people really do believe that they are being racially attacked, when in fact they are recieving the same treatment as any other person in their situation But then, I'm just a middle-class white guy married to a middle-class white girl, so what do I know
If one is going to make a claim of racsism,one should be able to back it up with fact.At work I have seen and heard of plenty of people using the race/gender card to get out of trouble.That is a situation that nobody wants to deal with. I despise double standards as well.I agree it is wrong to deny someone something based on race,color or creed.I think it is also wrong to grant someone special consideration based on the same.
I think prejudice is hard wired into us all to some extent. We divide the world into 'us' and 'them'. Quiet who us and them are changes from person to person and probably day to day. Equally however some people do themselves no favours by adopting a permanent victim culture. That's my opinion for what it is worth.* *absolutely zip.
As far as I'm concerned people are people. Saying that... white, middle class, boarding school etc. I happen to live in an area where 99.999999 percent of the population is white....Welsh, but white. I don't like positive discrimination....Miss black whatever contests....Music from black origins (MOBY awards) etc, you are not allowed to reverse it and have Miss white whatever, that would be racist. I don't care if people are black, white, pink, brown, yellow or green, it doesn't bother me if they are straight, gay, bisexual, celibate or raving nyphomaniacs, disabled, differently abled or have two heads. People are people and deserve to be treated with respect. Apart from the little toad that dumped me last August!
That's not prejudice, that's just dumb! (trying to get some points back!) I think we should try to take out the emphasis of race in daily life, much like the previously mentioned (insert race) Awards, Miss (race) Whatever, etcetera. I think that sort of stuff just perpetuates the problem. There's nothing wrong with pride in your race, but constantly accentuating the differences, and shoving them in people's faces makes things worse IMHO.
Bless Tom, you're so sweet! At last someone who understands my arguement and actually puts it more coherently than I do, thanks Tom. Maybe I just don't see things the way other people see them, call me stupid, call me naive if you want. When Halle Berry won her Oscar there was a huge fuss made of her in the press...the first black woman to win an Oscar. I thought she had a nice suntan, I didn't think of her as a *coloured* person....she was just an actress to me. Should we see the colour before we see the person?
simple in most people minds its White to Black never Black to white such as its always its always Guy's to Girls not Vis Versa
To me, racism is treating somebody differently and badly (to whatever extent) with their race being one of the major factors for doing so. While I agree with hahnficken that we should all try to be as tolerant as possible, I myself have seen some of Ricky's examples of 'racism' for real. They might use their race as a scapegoat for why they got a bad mark etc. Any reports of racism should be taken seriosuly, but that includes looking at it in great detail, and making sure that it was indeed an act of spiteful hatred, or if somebody is just crying for attention or an excuse.
Consider this dutch joke; What do you call it when a man talks dirty to a woman? Sexual harassment What do you call it when a woman talks dirty to a man? 2$/minute Back to the serious though; I hate everyone equally, and only treat people different if they treat me different. For several years there was a gay guy in our band, but apart from the occasional joke nothing was noticeable about him, so noone cared. I've worked with "coloured" co-workers on many occasions yet only 1 person stood out because she didn't speak decent dutch, apart from that I've never had any problems whatsoever.
Therefore there is something wrong with taking pride in your race. Anyone who thinks of himself as a superior person because of his skin colour or anything else is perpetuating the problem. Racism will only fully disappear when people see a person first as a human being and second by whatever physical characteristics they may have. Obviously this is never going to happen, but we can all work towards it by making sure the whole idea of "race" in general is not a point of personal pride, but a nonentity. When you discriminate people by skin colour you are a racist; when you try quite intensively to avoid discriminating people by their skin colour, ending up with the reverse situation, you are still a racist.
Also, why using words like "white","black" or "coloured" to designate a person ? Why not talking about humans only ?
Fair point MissKinnan, but consider the following; When you are at work/school/convention and 90% or more of the people there are "white" and for any reason whatsoever (maybe he/she has a nice car) you wish to point out someone who is "black". Would describe the allignment of his teeth? Would you say it's the person with the witty comments? The size of his shoes? or how long it takes him to solve an equasion? No, you say that black guy. Why? because sight is one of our most important senses and is very useful for making distinction, and skin colour is no minor detail when simply looking at the large picture of a person.
Yes, your right : we need to use the adjectives "black" or "white" to point out someone physically. But what i meant is that some people associate these words to the person's morale/mental, and consequently, these people are racists. Parenthesis Like the words "boy" and "girl" ; why using two different words to finally designate humans ? It's purely physical (i think [also i'm maybe wrong]). But once again : for some people, every of these words corresponds to a specific character (= sexism) (sorry for the repetitions, but i don't have english synonyms dictionnary here lol)
Discussions in the 'Africa' topic plus some real life stuff prompted me to revisit this old topic. Firstly, I was happy to be able to prevent some 'victim culture racism'. A student came to see me, and we had the following conversation: "We think [Lecturer X] is racist" "Why?" "Because he is really strict with [students from my ethnic group]" "Does he treat everybody else just as strictly?" "Uh, yes." "So is he racist?" "Uh, no." Further conversation with the student brought up the fact that this student and friends had been pratting about in lectures, and had received a stren talking to from the lecturer in question, and somehow felt the need to blame their problem on something that wasn't them. :roll: Secondly, and as a good topic for discussion, I read an article written by an asian guy (from Luton! ) about rascism - he went to the 'whitest' town in the UK and interviewed people there about it. One of the theories put forward by the guys he interviewed was that if you speak good English, people tend to see through the difference in skin colour, but if your English is poor, you get labelled as 'foreign'. The recommendation? Don't bother teaching immigrants 'Britishness', teach them English. Discuss...
It's really interesting to see europeans and americans talk about racism.And labelling people as blacks,asians and so on and so forth. I was just wondering,with regards to the above suggestion,do i then sound european enough for you guys if i hadn't told u i hail from Singapore?
Well, we write about what we know. How are Europeans / Americans / Australians labelled in Asia? It would be interesting to have your views on this area of discussion. The great thing about the internet is that nobody knows what you are - what you look like, if you are young, old, male, female, etc etc unless you announce it. People can only be judged on what they say and how they act, which in my opinion is how it should always be anyway.
I just realised what you meant kaiser, sorry. I did not record the full point of the guy in the article. He was referring only to immigrants into Britain. It would be like me emigrating to China, but not really bothering to learn Chinese properly. I would stick out because of my appearance anyway, but I would fit in better if I was reasonably fluent in the language, rather than speaking pigeon Chinese with an atrocious accent. That is what was meant, sorry for any misunderstanding.
Don't sweat it,mate. I get what you mean.Well i do not know about things in China.In fact,even i,a Singaporean Chinese would be discriminated in China because of our own version of Mandarin and the distinctive accent we carry.It is hard to explain but Singaporean Chinese are what Americans is to the British. The only difference being, Chinese are everywhere! We are a very westernised bunch here mixed in with traditional roots.We would treat everyone the same because we are used to a multi-racial society. Though there are still among the chinese in singapore that are racist to the other races because they generally do not help themselves.
