Welcome to the WWII Forums! Log in or Sign up to interact with the community.

Stephen Ambrose

Discussion in 'WWII Today' started by luketdrifter, Apr 27, 2010.

  1. luketdrifter

    luketdrifter Ace

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2009
    Messages:
    2,349
    Likes Received:
    304
  2. OpanaPointer

    OpanaPointer I Point at Opana Staff Member WW2|ORG Editor

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2008
    Messages:
    19,193
    Likes Received:
    5,969
    I know one professor, who taught him at Sandhurst, who was disappointed in him.
     
  3. PzJgr

    PzJgr Drill Instructor

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2000
    Messages:
    8,386
    Likes Received:
    890
    Location:
    Jefferson, OH
    Does not surprise me. Ambrose does come across as narcissistic. My stance when reading historic material is to trust but verify. Someone said that I believe.
     
  4. OpanaPointer

    OpanaPointer I Point at Opana Staff Member WW2|ORG Editor

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2008
    Messages:
    19,193
    Likes Received:
    5,969
    He compared Ambrose to Carl Sagan, dismissing him as a "popularizer". (Not necessarily a bad thing, but I wouldn't put Ambrose in Sagan's class by any means.)
    Eisenhower said something along those lines in regard to nuclear weapons treaties.
     
  5. -tmm-

    -tmm- Member

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2010
    Messages:
    59
    Likes Received:
    3
    This doesn't surprise me in the slightest. He tends to write what he wants, regardless of historical accuracy. Populariser sounds pretty good. His blanket dismissal of the pilots who dropped the airborne troops as cowards in Band of Brothers is a good example.
     
  6. Volga Boatman

    Volga Boatman Dishonorably Discharged

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2009
    Messages:
    1,640
    Likes Received:
    154
    Modern history has been influenced by certain historians, who have to portray themselves as knowledgable story tellers, who can make reasoned statements, presumably, we hope, founded on the evidence, rather than on the opinions of the historian. This we call impartialism, and reputations speak a lot for whether your assumptions are accepted at face value, or dismissed as speculation.

    I thought Ambrose's work was entertaining. But I also believe that his number one objective is to make a living from these books, rather than concerning himself with other, more work heavy aspects of writing history, (like doing your own research). A shame, though. If nothing else, history needs his brand of enthusiasm, even if it doesn't need Stephen Ambrose.
     
  7. OpanaPointer

    OpanaPointer I Point at Opana Staff Member WW2|ORG Editor

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2008
    Messages:
    19,193
    Likes Received:
    5,969
    It's the lazy way to write history. "Such-and-such were ALL so-and-so." No need to examine or explain the whole situation that way. History by sweeping generalization.
     
  8. luketdrifter

    luketdrifter Ace

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2009
    Messages:
    2,349
    Likes Received:
    304
    I never could wrap my head around his supposed "hundreds and hundreds" of hours of interview time with Eisenhower.
     
  9. Slipdigit

    Slipdigit Good Ol' Boy Staff Member WW2|ORG Editor

    Joined:
    May 21, 2007
    Messages:
    18,054
    Likes Received:
    2,376
    Location:
    Alabama
    I am not fond of him. Many of his books pulled directly from other books. Citizen Soldiers, you'd been better off reading the three books he borrowed heavily from to "write" his book.

    I don't read anything written by him.
     
  10. Erich

    Erich Alte Hase

    Joined:
    May 13, 2001
    Messages:
    14,439
    Likes Received:
    617
    he was in a civil lawsuit for liabel before his passing, really think this took it out of him. I find his work(s) trash actually.
     
  11. Slipdigit

    Slipdigit Good Ol' Boy Staff Member WW2|ORG Editor

    Joined:
    May 21, 2007
    Messages:
    18,054
    Likes Received:
    2,376
    Location:
    Alabama
    Libel or plagiarism?
     
  12. luketdrifter

    luketdrifter Ace

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2009
    Messages:
    2,349
    Likes Received:
    304
    I completely disagree with saying his works are trash. I've always questioned his reliance is "personal interviews" but have read all of his books, and enjoyed them all. Open up the flood gates for everything now...because if an author did it once, they probably did it every time.
     
  13. OpanaPointer

    OpanaPointer I Point at Opana Staff Member WW2|ORG Editor

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2008
    Messages:
    19,193
    Likes Received:
    5,969
    Take want you want or need from any work. I'm not much of a fan of secondary sources, as some of you might have noticed. ;)
     
  14. Erich

    Erich Alte Hase

    Joined:
    May 13, 2001
    Messages:
    14,439
    Likes Received:
    617
    both Jeff. Luke yes there were some distortion of texts from German as well as US vets on the Normandie campaign that was getting him in to troubled sorts.

    heck much is my personal opinion I read an account or two from him and was unimpressed, but again understand this is my take. look at the tastes of the forum board in the threads posted: many and varied as it should be.......

    was looking through his 15th AF heavy bombers book a few years back some of which I could not find factual backup to his statements
     
  15. Old Schoolr

    Old Schoolr Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2009
    Messages:
    109
    Likes Received:
    12
    I'm not defending Amborse but he is probably no worse than S.L.A. Marshall when it comes to shaping history to their own vision.
    My biggest compliant w/ Ambrose is his dismissal of American involvement in the ETO prior to 6/6/44. While North Africa, Sicily, Italy & southern France may not have been definative campaigns of the ETO they certainly shapped to US Army into the force that landed in Normandy & the men who fought in those campaigns shouldn't have been ignored as much as they were.
     
  16. OpanaPointer

    OpanaPointer I Point at Opana Staff Member WW2|ORG Editor

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2008
    Messages:
    19,193
    Likes Received:
    5,969
    I read (somewhere now lost in time) that this attitude was driven by his anger with Gen. Marshall's anglophobia. Another case of "two wrongs."
     
  17. Mehar

    Mehar Ace

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2009
    Messages:
    1,366
    Likes Received:
    115
    What did he say? Been a while since I've read the book or seen the series.
     
  18. PzJgr

    PzJgr Drill Instructor

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2000
    Messages:
    8,386
    Likes Received:
    890
    Location:
    Jefferson, OH
    Or David Irving
     
  19. Steve Petersen

    Steve Petersen Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2010
    Messages:
    192
    Likes Received:
    17
    Ambrose had a major segment on the BBC production The World at War. He had about a half hour in which he summarised the outcome. I thought it was rather good.

    The BBC must have thought enough of his credentials to ask him to contribute.

    I am aware of some of the controversy surrounding his apparent plagiarism (sp?). But it has been correctly pointed out that he is a 'popularizer'. He is easy to read and brings some interesting perspectives to the 'big picture' of the war.

    Ready for my spanking now!
     
  20. GrandsonofAMarine

    GrandsonofAMarine Member

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2009
    Messages:
    187
    Likes Received:
    49
    To be honest, Atkinson is far superior as a populaizer. The first two of his trilogy are brilliant.

    Ambrose gets a meh. He'll always be known as the guy who wrote BoB, but truthfully what makes BoB special has little to do with him. Spielberg, his production company, and especially the actors, made that series.
     

Share This Page