The news this morning stating that....

Germany will join the anti-Taliban forces.....well anyway will support the US in some of it's activities. I wanted to make mention of the German troop uniforms that I saw. Suspiciously close to the Waffen SS spring dot pattern. But with Red Berets ? Hhhhhmmmmmmmm, that is most interesting.

E

 

And you wanna know whats funny? the MERE mention of German Troops had MANY shaking in their shoes.

I think its an EXCELLENT idea for German Combat Troops to be on the ground. I bet ol slimy bin laden is pooping in his sheets at this news.

From what I heard-there are supposed to be 5,000 German combat troops in this wave. As a medal collector, I have to wonder if the Bundeswehr (Wehrmacht ((BIG GRIN)), and Luftwaffe--(I hate calling it the Bundeswaffe) and the Kriegsmarine (not Bundesmarine) they will reinstate the EK 1's and EK 2's as bravery awards. This would be a welcome thing to happen.

Someone on the news had it wrong though-they said this was the first time since ww2 that German soldiers had been sent to another country--nope--what about the city of Kosovo, in the former Czech Republic? German military personnel were there. Now, the media might have meant to say that this is the first time since German ground combat troops have been deployed since before the Wehrmacht ceased to exist.

I just have to wonder what the Croations think about this?

 

Had to throw the balkenkreuz right up there.
Depending just how far the Geramn military gets involved over there, I cannot see why not, just remove anything that resembles the Third Reich, and you're in business, of course I am not part of the military system, and that is quite easy for me to say. Carl, we must have been watching the same news cast eh......FOX ? As to the coalition, yes they maybe shaking in their boots. When the news caster interviewed the German ambassodor this morn, of course he asked the stupid obvious question....oh no what is this going to mean, does the German military rise again ? !..my wife and I truned off the telecast on that one.

E

 

Quote:
"the city of Kosovo, in the former Czech Republic?"

Tss, Carl, please. You know better.

Cheers,
Timo

 

i think it is pretty cool that german troops are going to be used.
I do have one major question...all these countries are sending ground troops...first off...with some of them speaking different languages how are they going to coordinate things?
Also with the assumption that ground operations will not be in very large scales...what are we going to do with all these other foreign troops? are they going to do their own operations? Are we going to be giving them orders? will only foreign troops be used sometimes instead of US?
I'm wondering where this is going??

[ 07 November 2001: Message edited by: Ron ]

 

If anybody here has questions about the Heer, please ask ME!!! What do you mean, you don't know that our uniforms look like SS ones?!!

If they had red berets, they were either engineers (like me! hurrra!!) or signals, artillery, transport or mechanics. Black ones are worn by anything that goes in a tank, green ones by all the ground infantry, sort of purplish by the FJ units and blue is for medics. Berets are NOT worn in combat by anyone except self-conscious tankers.

Carl: "Bundeswaffe" what the hell is that supposed to mean?! It means "federal weapon". We still call the Luftwaffe Luftwaffe!!

What do you all mean with "shaking in their boots"? If you mean they were scared to death of us, my pride in my army has just grown to previously unattained heights!!

BTW, Carl, if you hate the "Bundes-", just don't say it. It's just as correct to say Heer, Luftwaffe and Marine. Of course the whole thing is still the Bundeswehr. "Wehr" by itself wouldn't make that much sense, rather nobody would know what you mean!

German troops have been in foreign countries since the war in Bosnia as part of SFOR and IFOR. Now we're also in KFOR. And so, why not go to Afghanistan?!

[ 08 November 2001: Message edited by: Andreas Seidel ]

 

Andreas :

Just only picked up the last portion of the mornings broadcast on TV. I noticed very briefly-2- sections showing the camo uniform. It did appear to be very similar to the W-SS dot pattern of WW 2. Was this standard for the panzer crews or the infantry during your time of service ? Thank you too for sharing the difference between the beret colours....
As to shaking in our boots. At least from what I have heard here in the western USA, is that many people do not want the German nation to create it's own armed forces. Folks here are scared that there could be a new Reich starting. Baloney, I cannot agree with this, but I have customers that have told me their personal feelings.......too much bitterness from the earlier war I suppose. It is also very sad that our liberal news media has the same ideas.

E

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Erich Brown:
I noticed very briefly-2- sections showing the camo uniform. It did appear to be very similar to the W-SS dot pattern of WW 2. Was this standard for the panzer crews or the infantry during your time of service ? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It has been standard for everyone for a couple of years now. You can buy the old uniforms (which were plain olive) almost all over the world. We really had some brillant guy there who decided to sell the old uniforms - they've become a trend. I've seen hundreds of our old uniform coats worn in Italy for example!! People seem to think it's cool to wear something that is ex-German army.

Tell this to your customers: It's a bit late to complain about a German army now, they should have done that in 1955, when the Bundeswehr was founded as part of NATO.

 

For Timo, Ron, Andreas, Erich and Andreas again:

Timo: Ooops--I did not realize my mistake as I was in a hurry to post this and to leave to go to work. I was already late leaving by about 15 minutes. What I should have stressed was that German Army medics (HEER)((Thanks Andreas ) were sent to those areas but no combat troops were (to the best of my knowledge and poor memory).

Ron: No problems with communication, plenty of armies have many who sprechen sie more than ein language. My boss at work is an ex-US Ranger who was a sniper, and he speaks 5 other languages fluently which are: German, russian, frainch, spanish and mandarin chinese.

This is also where the buttkissers also known as politicians, come in. They kiss eachother till they figure out who is to do what. Then they wipe the lipstick off their cheeks and also make sure none got on their collars. Im sure whoever is the senior commander in an area, will be the boss. They arent going to send in just any commander or just any unit--these for the most part are all elite soldiers including Green Berets, SEALS, SAS US Rangers, etc. Im sure there are probably Brit Red Devils and the like there too, oh and i forgot--there are some of the US Armys own "Gebirgejagers" there as well--some soldiers of the 10th Mountain Division which is based in New York.

Andreas: Double oops, I meant to say Bundeswehr-not Bundeswaffe--I cant believe I made that bad of an error You have made me a happier camper knowing the army is still called the Heer and not just the BW. I either heard or read somewhere that Bundeswaffe was supposed to be the replacement term for Wehrmacht, which if you get technical I was actually correct but misused the term--the Bundeswaffe is a Federal Weapon, is it not? But you did correct me and from now on, I will use Heer and not BW.

Oh and you are totally correect--thats what I meant, that those sandies are shaking so badly in their sandals and are chewing their girllike fingernails down to nubbins at the thought of fighting Germans.

Case in point: A friend of mine who was living in Germany about 20 yrs ago, and was a teacher at a US Army School. He went out with 3 Ami Soldiers he was good friends with and they went to a Die Kniepe for a night out.

Heh heh, one of the G.I.s saw his ex-girlfriend there--who was German, and she was with her new boyfriend, who was a German Fallschirmjager. The ex-gal of that G.I's said something to the Fallschirm, who then went to confront the G.I.

A fight broke out, and the Fallschirm, was beating the crap out of all three G.I's, and Gary (the teacher)took a chair and slammed the Fallschirm over his head with it and knocked him unconscious. The Fallschirms gal pal, hit Gary in his forehead with a bottle of beer or wine (he has the 4 inch long scar to prove it) which knocked him silly. One of the G.I's still aware of what was going on, managed to get them all out of the bar before the white mice came in to play.

I'll tell you--that Fallschirm, was one tough son-of-a-gun.

Im more than happy that Germans are wanted there. Just goes to show you that the German Army is very respected.

Erich: I agree with you, that its BS about the liberal punks that call themselves reporters (thinking that clitton is still the she-president, and HAVE to be "politically correct"--NOT, and keep putting the Germans down because these tricks think its still trendy to do so. I say these liberal punks are nothing but stalinistic big mouthed cowards. Nobody wants to admit (except for folks like us) that the German Soldiers in WW2 (and now) are asskickers.

Back to Andreas: While I was in Germany last year and traveling the country with my friend Susanne from Dingelsdorf/Konstanz, and we were traveling through either unterammergau or oberammergau, and we were driving on some strasse right next to a Gebirgsjager base.

We were at a stop light waiting our turn to go, when over this little hill, came a group of Gebirgsjager running and who charged at us. I (Like a kid in a candy store and with a big grin on my face) whipped out my Nikon Cmaers and snapped off a few shots of them charging our car and past.

Of course Susanne was embarassed, but it ended when the soldiers smiled at us and gave us thumbs up. They were lead by a Leutnant or an Oberleutnant. Then wave number two of Gebirgsjagers charged the car and ran past--and again, I made an ass of myself but couldnt help it and snapped more photos. These guys grinned and gave us the thumbs up, and ran past.

They were in a dot pattern camo uniform wearing the modern version of the M-43 cap? I too see alot of German Army stuff for sale--and on ebay. I bought a Fallschirmjager beret--just for the badge. I almost bought a jacket with the German flag on it but resisted. I saw many people wearing them while in Switzerland and Germany.

When in Switzerland, I saw many Swiss Soldiers in uniform at the train station in Zurich. I noticed the badge on their berets to which reminded me of the ww2 German General Assault Badge (or either I was seeing things-or it was wishful thinking on my part)

[ 08 November 2001: Message edited by: C.Evans ]

 

So Carl, you were playing around above the spa in Oberammergau eh ? Been there in 1980.....did you know this is where many un-made Me 262's were in all sorts of part(s) states in the caves up on the hill ?.......and right after the war the US army made permanent residence and kept everyone out of the area. Seems there was and still is some very secret undertakings that were going on there.

sehr gut !

E

 

Nah-no spa, Susanne and I were on our war to stay at Forsthaus Graseck, which is in the mountains. God what beautiful scenery. Susanne and I met a ww2 Gebirgsjager RKT who was staying there, and we ate supper with him that night and I bought himm breakfast the next morning. He invited us to go trapsing through the tree swith him but we had to decline as we were only staying about 2 more hours and Susanne wanted to climb down the mountain by way of the trail--which took about an hour as it was slippery and the stairs were slimy. It was fun though....my first chance at being a boy scout again--since I was 15.

 

Sweet ! Kätie and I have promised ourselves to go the back way by Linderhof and down into Austria and then sweep up back side of Füssen. I've thought about taking my road bike since it would be absolutely awesome riding......hey, I love the hills anyway. Maybe some rock climbing to throw in as well. Actually getting over there to do the big König-strasse cross-country ski race bei Linderhof wouldn't be a bad idea either. Well I'm getting too psyched out for myself as we must return before my relatives pass away........ah, not enough time. Guess I'll wait for those W-SS look a like dot pattern ponchos to go on sale in 10 years. Interesting that I remember when the east German ponchos and fatigues would be found any and everywhere you looked at military surplus store(s)......

E

 

I know what you mean. The time to go is now, and if you have Providian Visa card--you can get the Destination Unlimited card which will get you there at half price--no layovers no overnight stays in route to getting to Germany--just 10 Hrs--at least from Dallas Texas--to Frankfurt.

 

Whoa ! I like that quite a bit. used to be from here, go to Seattle then SAS over to Copenhagen then Lufthansa down to Frankfurt, and lucky if it wasn't 12 hours minimum.


Eine Braut wird Glück bringen ! Opa Baer

E

 

Of course though, im about 1,500 miles closer to Germany than you are. From here its only about 6,000 to 6,400 miles.

 

CArl :

It just left me, rats......ther is a German air-line that has incredible cut-rates, or at least it used to about 5 years ago when I was very serious about flying over to Deutschland. Cannot for the life of me think what the name of it is. flys out of the major cities I believe and of course you have to fly over I believe on the red-eye flights to get the best deals. In your state I would assume Dallas would be home for this airline to fly in and out. Here on the west coast it was San Francisco......rats, my brain is fryed today.

E

 

Hi all, i back from a short break.

I think its great that German troops are to be deployed. All this rubbish abouot a new German Reich. Noboby worries about deploying Brit troops, and it may have escaped peoples notice, but we had a little go at taking other peoples countries.
As for German troops in Kosovo. I had mates in Macedonia just before the guys went into Kosovo. They were part of a reaction force to rescue UN people if things went wrong. The commanding General was a German. On a brief to the guys he joked that they should go through Kosovo, turn half right and just keep going. He said that with the other allied troops on his side, they should do it this time. And who Germans have no sense of humour.

Andreas, as a German and a soldier, i would like to ask you a question. Do you think that the German army of today would be as effective in combat as it was 60 years ago. Or is your military hindered by not giving the wrong impression because of the past.

[ 10 November 2001: Message edited by: Bish ]

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bish:
Andreas, as a German and a soldier, i would like to ask you a question. Do you think that the German army of today would be as effective in combat as it was 60 years ago. Or is your military hindered by not giving the wrong impression because of the past.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No. The reason is simple - training is far too soft and getting softer. I have many friends who were in the army at the same time as I was, and I know some who are still in. My unit was the only one I know of so far (and some Panzergrenadiers) who were trained even slightly in the same fashion as the Wehrmacht. I.e. we had bodies and minds of steel. That sounds extremely propagandistic, but it's the way we felt!

And after standing stark-naked in a forest washing myself with ice one January morning at well-below-freezing temperatures, I believed it too. It still amazes me that I didn't even get a cold from that!!

However this is really becoming the exception. Most people I know did nothing more than cleaning rifles for months on end. So, some units, yes they would fight with almost the same efficiency. Most would be shot to pieces in the state they are in now.

If we went back to 24 months of service time and the sort of training we got only even more of it, then it should be plain that things would improve immeasurably!

However this slackening of training is not only a German problem, I believe most other countries have it too.

 

Erich, are you talking about Lufthansa?

Glad to see you back here Bish--your presance was missed.

I like the idea of British and German soldiers sharing this info.

Andreas, I would say that if you washed yourself with ice stark naked in some forrest in january--then you must have Zeus's brass balls to withstand THAT cold.

Me, I love cold temperatures, but I couldnt do that. Sounds like the Alaskan Polar Bear Club. These people go to a frozen lake in the middle of winter, cut a hole in the ice and hop in for a bath.

I couldnt do that either--unless I had drunk a bottle of Cinnamon Schnapps. Mmmmm Schnapps.

 

Carl, no not Lufthansa, but some other smaller air-line.......rats, I can;t think of it. Must look deep into my old files. Andreas, you be the man ! Whoa.....that takes it. Say what is your opinion of the present day Fallshirmajägern .... ?

E