Veterans' Attitudes Towards Medals Awarded For Bravery

In reading interviews with American and German veterans of WW2, it seems to me there is a marked difference in their feelings about being awarded medal and commendations for heroism under fire.

Among American veterans there often seems to be a reluctance to talk about the circumstances that led to the award, or some guilt at receiving the award (" I was just doing my job" or "The real heroes are all lying dead on the battlefield"), or even disdain ("I didn't do anything to deserve this"). There seems to be little displayed pride associated with receiving these decorations.

On the other hand, many of the German veterans seem to express a sort of a quiet pride (although certainly not arrogance, boastfulness, nor vanity) at being recognized for acts of valor. They often seem able to calmly and clinically discuss the circumstances that led to them being commended.

I guess my first question is: Is this a completely false perception on my part?

If not, then why do you think this difference in attitude exists? Did the German military do a better job of documenting acts of valor on the battlefield than the American military; making sure the right man was decorated for the right reason?

Were decorated soldiers in the German military held in higher esteem by their peers than those in the American military?

Is bravery under fire more highly valued in German society than in American society, in general?

In closing, it goes without saying, of course, that is a generalization.

 

50/50

my relatives were so so. a close friend going through hell on the eastern front was given the EK 2 which he promptly hid and then threw away, he could not care less due to all the carnage and death he experienced first hand. slightly OT but we did the same in Nam.

 

I've thought about this before, and came to this conclusion. This is just my view of it, and it may be completely wrong:

Germany was a much more "militaristic" society than America was at the time. As such, military awards were more "integrated" into their society than they were for the Americans. With the exception of the Medal of Honor, most American awards were issued away from the public light (ie: in military ceremonies, and not advertised to the public), while I believe most German awards above KC where advertised to the public (like a form of propaganda). To respond to your second point: I would say that the American military did a better job than the Germans to recognize bravery (correct me if I'm wrong, but it was rare in the Wehrmacht for an enlisted man to be issued the KC or higher).

 

That was not always the case, especially closer to the end of the war, when decorations became more and more significant part pf propaganda campaigns. For example, compare awards of this officer and list of his real successes (although sinking of HMS Welshman was quite a success for German forces in the Mediterranean, other targets seem too insignificant to earn such a high decorations):
Fregattenkapitn Albrecht Brandi - German U-boat Commanders of WWII - The Men of the Kriegsmarine - uboat.net

Regards,

 

the Deutsche Wochenshau films were a weekly propaganda tool all full of hierarchy junk to get the German folk back home to support the TR tool of warfare, and effective one at that. it all depends on the issuance of bravery from the Kommandeur down in any time frame of the war. if anything the proliferation of EK 2's was more in 1945 then any other part of the war.

 

Not sure about the Allied highly decorated soldiers, but the German KC winners were required to have autographs with them and give these signed to people who came to them and asked for one ( propaganda reasons ). I recall as well a story of a KC winner in a crowded train ca late 1944 an old woman offered his sitting place to this man...I suppose the German KC winners were considered as movie stars in Germany thanx to Göbbels more or less.

 

ccorrect Kai and upin interviews with relatives they mentioned no-one cared by 1945, on the run from the Soviets, everyone was treated the same and in no high regard, in fact a couple of instances the RK winners cowered like beaten dogs during train bombings and strafings............weird

 

I was born in 1940 and came of age surrounded by many veterans of WW2 plus we had a pilot training base in my home town of Selma, Alabama that stayed in operation until the mid 60's so many veterans were there as well. Rarely did any speak of the war, especially their role in it. Their family's would be proud of them and talk about medals, I remember one DSC, several Silver and Bronze Stars and many Purple Hearts discussed but the soldiers themselves did not mention them that I recall. I think they wanted to put it behind them.

I think Vietnam is so complex and still emotional that it is difficult to compare it. I do remember Granada causing controversy because of the large number of medals given. It was published at the time that the medal count well exceeded the number of men on the island, some recipients never leaving the US. Of course it may have been exaggerated in the press but the military did comment on it at the time and not all were for valor but it was not a high point in a fine military history. It did seem to have the effect of exciting the civilian population to some degree.

The more I learned about WW2 the more I realize the enormous sacrifices made by such a large portion of the world population, military and civilian.

 

Its most likely due to the German sisde of things...Germans are matter of fact about things which, particularly during the war could seem to non-Germans as boasting or vanity or a feeling of superiority...or German arrogance....its a cultural misunderstanding...Germans are just telling it how it is...where "western" cultures tend to frown socially on any talking up off or even agreeing to anyone else talking up something. The fact that Germans lack this (although western morays and nuances are being absorbed unconscioulsy these days) is a sign of cultural maturity in my opinion.

 

I think this is a very complex question, without a clearcut answer. I have no knowledge of the German attitude toward talking of their war experience or citations for bravery.

As for American veterans' attitude, I would go back to what Eugene Sledge said in his book, With the Old Breed. If I recall correctly, he said that awards seemed to go to those whose brave action just happened to be noticed by the right person, or someone who would put them forth for the award. Not that all who received it were not deserving, but that far too many acts of real bravery went unrewarded.

I think it is a combination of things. That generation definitely had the attitude they were just doing their job. I also think that so many of them just felt the real reward was surviving. And I think that if many of them saw so many acts of unheralded bravery, I can see where that might dilute the impact of awards in their eyes. (I have read of people feeling ashamed of receiving Purple Hearts because they had what was an insignificant injury when compared to someone who lost limbs, for example.)

I have also heard my father speak of being afraid when they were being shot at or bombed, and I've never asked him, but I believe that being the man he is, that he thinks that makes what he did less courageous, whereas we all know that acting in the face of your fear is what courage is all about. And that is what all of these men did, in some form or fashion.

My father always relates this story because his brother, Roy, was such a cut-up. My Uncle Roy was in England for the duration, he serviced airplanes when they came back from ops. No criticism of men who did the job my uncle did, they were every bit as necessary and brave, but Roy never saw combat. My father was on Omaha Beach on D-Day and was with the Third Army through Europe and yet Roy had many of the same ribbons my father had. Oh, how Roy used to laugh about that....

 

Very well said!
I am personally interested in Soviet submarine warfare during WW2 (one of my spheres of interest) - and after reading several modern studies on this topic I've found out that some of submarine commanders who made "brilliant" reports after returing to base without actually sinking any ship, received the highest decorations, while those who really achieved successes, but did not write good reports on them, received much less. I think such a situation was common not only for submariners and not only for the USSR.

Regards,

 

Quite true indeed!

 

............... then we come to Korea, Viet Nam (my group), and mid-east shenanigans ( still my group sadly) ............... I couldn't give a rats behind but that's just me, and this is about WW 2 right ? .... ooops

back On topic, My Father in law survived several Japanese Suicide attempts on his Tin-Can; service medals, commendations, etc. Unless he was one of the very few on that particular crate he didn't care one way or the other but just wanted to get home alive to his bride, the medals were saved in the leather boxes taped up put in dual plastic/paper garbage bags and then tossed.

 

Hi !

Thought you might like to get a bit of input from one of the Brits on this forum.

Firstly, let me tell you where I'm coming from.

I had what might be considered an "interesting" war.

I served from October 1942 until May 1947 and managed to be involved in North Africa, Sicily, Italy, Austria, Germany & Egypt.

I was fortunate enough never to be wounded but on many an occasion saw others killed around me.

I was a Driver/Wireless Op and then later a Loader/Op so I was always busy with keeping others informed but I cheerfully confess to never having behaved in any specific "heroic" manner and, to this day, wonder how I would have behaved if I had been called upon to disregard my own safety for the benefit of others.

But..... this has never stopped me from recognising and acknowledging when others have behaved in such a way and I have always been grateful for any chance to bring their stories to a wider public.

Go have a look at these two links

AJEX Remembrance Service & Parade 2009 - World War 2 Talk

http://www.bbc.co.uk/ww2peopleswar/stories/83/a4234583.shtml


Regards

Ron

 

G'day Ron, nice win in the cricket by the way...
Would appreciate your input on my "working class Brits" thread...i have never heard such a statement, but have noticed from television that working class people are certainly regularly "portrayed" as...well angry. If this idea has any veracity i think it sheds an important light on things.

 

CAC

Have, as requested, responded to your thread

Ron

 

I asked my great uncle, Scottish-born Wing Commander Don Smith about his DSO and DFC awards and he said "I got them because other people thought I should have some form of recognition..." - he never really went into detail about the citations.