What if... -Hitler would have blueprints for E-series in 1933 (but canceling the super heavies), would produce them from 1935 -cancel Me-109 (replace it with Fw-190) -have that damn ( don' t remember the name) airplane with the jet engine in the center of the fuselage get to production on a ratio of 1 damn planes to 4 Fw-190 -get a good heavy bomber into production -get the Kriegsmarine ready for the war for 1941 -make a Non-aggression-Pact with Molotov in 1939 and send (secretly) weopons to Finland ( I'm from there!) -invade and conquer Poland and France in 1942 after getting Czechslovakia, Austria and such with treatys -ally with Italy, Japan and Finland, sending techology there -Conquer England in late 1942-1943 -Conquer Iceland, cutting a path to Murmansk ... to be continued... Sorry about the grammatical errors and such! :kill:
OK, hello PanzerMeister, welcome to the forum. What you propose is a whole darn lot of what ifs. It's certain that if all these things had happened, Germany would have won the war and all of Europe would be under their occupation even today, unless the US after very much preparation would launch a very risky invasion to restore their markets in Europe. It is unlikely that, with the base of Great Britain lost, there would be a good option to undertake such a liberation mission. They would have still invaded the Soviet Union? If so, they would probably be dragged into a war of attrition on a scale unknown even today, since the whole of that nation would have been mobilized to fight for every inch of ground and there are simply more Russians than there are Germans in this world. Eventually, the German industries, aimed for a short and decisive war, will be outproduced by the Soviets even if the Soviet quality of manufactures is as low as it was. So Germany would have to reform its industry drastically to keep up, if they wish to win this war before the US join in at full steam.
My area of knowledge is limited however I'll attempt to answer some of your questions. Firstly Germany could not have put off additional conquests for long, her economy after the Nazis came to power was largely dependant on rearming the military. Now economically that is a very poor investment for a nation as financially an army draws from the national wealth and contributes little back. The only way Germany could carry on rearming and maintaining a large modern military was through conquest and plunder, so if Germany had to postpone any of the large scale military operations of the early years of the war the result would have had to have been demobilisations and a cut back on military R&D. "-cancel Me-109 (replace it with Fw-190)" What would have happened if the Bf109 (Please, pet hate here, the Messerschmitt Bf109, not Me109!) had been cancelled and replaced with the Fw190? Germany would have been without a firstline fighter until summer 1941 since the Fw190 would not have been ready any earlier than then (there were many problems in development with the Fw190 which as it was his pet project Tank dealt with as quickly as was practical) and Germany would have seen itself trying to fight until then with obsolecent Arado Ar68 biplanes. The result would probably have been that unable to bring the Fw190 into service earlier the Bf109 (I'm assuming here that you would have allowed the Condor Legion to still use Doras and a few Emils in Spain?) would probably have been ordered in as a stop-gap so not much would have changed except that maybe the Bf109s development would have been setback a little, so that by 1940 the main frontline version would be the Bf109D rather than E. "have that damn ( don' t remember the name) airplane with the jet engine in the center of the fuselage get to production on a ratio of 1 damn planes to 4 Fw-190" Difficult to predict, I'm assuming you mean the first jet aircraft here and not the He162 Volksjager. But as it was a concept plane to test the possibilities of jet propulsion rather than a military plane I would imagine not a lot, reliable mass produced engines eluded Germany throughout the war, and in any case the aircraft you're refering to (Can't remember its name either!) was unarmed and had limited endurance, OK the first could possibly have been solved (Although as a test aircraft no thought had gone into providing spaces for weapons), the latter would have been much more difficult. "-get a good heavy bomber into production" Not a great deal would change, I'll copy and paste from another discussion group on the possibilities of a German Heavy Bomber later (because I'm basically lazy! ..and I'm working nights at the moment and have to leave for work fairly soon... :angry: ) Hope some of this helps, but in any case these are only my opinions, as with most "What If's...?" these are largely speculation and we're unlikely to ever get a definitive answer that everyone would agree on!
No matter what weapons, airplanes or tanks germans would have had. Ultimately the US and SU would have just copied them and produced them theirself. Soviet Union was way too big to be conquered by Germany with such limited manpower, industry and rawmaterials. Even if those if whats had happened, Germany would have lost. Germany just wasn't big enough to fight continuously with superpowers.
The problem here is that each of these questions have started or could start a serious discussion on this forum; having them bunched together like this makes even experts lose oversight. I think Simonr has dealt with this effectively by adressing only those what-ifs he knew a lot about and viewing them independently instead of in conjunction with all the others (like I did ). Basically. German economy or industry really wasn't up to war even though the national spirit was. Certain countries in the world would always have been able to outproduce the country until it eventually collapsed under the weight of having taken on just about the whole world.
Welcome to the forum, and here is my answer The world would have ended. There is no way we could have done it alone. The thing about what ifs is that it can't be so overwhelming as to leave only one way to answer or else why ask? In my opinion what you asked would be like asking what if Hitler had 100 Bismark class battleships with 200 Richelua (SP) class cruisers, 300 Destroyers equal to the Ajax, along with an extra 500 submarines and 100 other warships, an airforce ten times it's historical size, and 10,000 Toger 2 tanks in 1940.
What he would have had? A logistical problem. The world certainly would not have ended, 2ndLegion, but your comparison is well put. Hitler would probably have lost the war in the very long run, but in the short run much of the democratc world would be destroyed (permanently?). On the other hand, nothing put democracy quite as firmly in the saddle as the Second World War. Before it many were looking towards either a form of fascism or of communism as the 'new way', seeing their own parliamentary democracy as obsolete. At least in the Netherlands people did this, and judging the large communist and pro-German groups in Europe during the war, I reckon people elsewhere did so too. My point with this is, how long would the Third Reich have lasted internally if anything ever got known about what they were doing to large chunks of the population?
Simonr! I didn't mean with that "damn plane" Heinkel. I think it was a Kurt Tank design, and MiG-15 and Sabre almost similar to it. I saw it on some net site but I don't remember what was the address
Ahhh, the Ta183..... Well much is made of the type's superficial resemblance to the MiG15, about that a little later, but in practical terms this as with practically every other German Wunderwaffen could only have ever been too little too late. To have any chance of success Germany would have needed to have stopped the US bombing offensive in summer 1942 before it could have had any effect, and the only way they could have done this would have been to inflict such disasterous defeats on the 8th AAF that they convinced the US high command that the Strategic bomber offensive was not a practical option. Pretty much anything after that point was just too late. With regard to this aircraft many think of it in a kind of "What if the Luftwaffe had the MiG-15 in 1945?", well this simply wouldn't have been the case, for a start the similarities between the two were almost entirely superficial, and in any case the Ta183 was completed by Tank post war in Argentina as the Pulqui I and Pulqui II which were both considered disappointing aircraft. Regarding the German Heavies, the simple answer is that they would never have been enough. I couldn't find my other post so I'll type this one fresh... Firstly the Luftwaffe was almost completely incapable of thinking as a Strategic airforce, their training and doctrine were all Tactical, and any Heavy bomber would have been used as a Heavy-tactical bomber in more or less direct support for the Army rather than a Strategic bomber. In any case what would this bomber have been? Let me assume that the bomber would have been available throughout the war so Germany could have the most opportunity to make the best use of it. I imagine it to be something like the four engined He111 that was on the drawing boards before the war. This Alternative History also puts our German Heavy hopefully in the air before the disasterous obsession with dive-bombing took root. So what are the turning points in which this bomber could have had a real impact? The Battle of Britain? The range of the escorting fighters was the real issue here, not the bombers, or even their bombload, (and the decision to bomb London). Nothing the He111/4m could have changed there. The Desert? Basically a tactical air-war there, no benefit having a strategic bomber in the Desert. The Eastern Front. Best divide this one up into pieces... The Ural factories. A lot is made of the fact that had the Luftwaffe been able to reach and attack the Soviet Factories beyond the Urals they could have swung the Eastern Front. I really don't believe this to be so, firstly to stand any chance of finding and hitting the factories the Luftwaffe would either have to blindly carpet bomb huge areas by night, or suffer the annihilation of their unescorted bombers as they fly by day. Either way it would be unlikely to be enough to swing the Battles on the ground. Stalingrad. No real use here, the only thing they might have achieved would have been as more Yak fodder when pressed into the transport role. Kursk. Again, no real use here, a tactical battle. Finally there is Mainland USA. The only way Germany had any real chance of making an impact with a strategic bomber would have been to bomb the factories producing the vital war material on mainland USA, and no WW2 aircraft produced by Germany had anywhere near enough range to make it to the US and back and carry out any sort of bombing attack. Overall another 4 engine long range aircraft might have been useful for maritime patrol, but that would have been about it.
