One may as well ask why the tide comes in, or why does the sun shine? hehe.....don't know, but it was fun trying to guess!!!! How you been Arne? Have a look at the "newie" on the Warsaw Ghetto.....Great book by David Landau if you can get a copy of it in good ol'Belgium.....
Seriously, though... It's because the SS were a multi-national organisation, with units drawn from BOTH sides of the conflict.... If I was to write an article about the many RUSSIANS that served under their banner, thay would niether be, strictly speaking, Axis, nor would they be Allied.... The SS were the only organisation of World War two that made this distinction possible....hence the exception....
hmmm .... I didn't think that far actually. But now you said it. You're right. Well I'm going to open a topic then. greetings Arne.
give us something about the Belgian side of things.....I'd love to see an article from you! Regards Christopher (a.k.a. B5N2Kate)
Yes that's true but mostly it's against the wishes of these people that they are fighting in a different uniform..and this happened during the last years of the war..the SS was never meant to be a multi-national army outfit..
Whether it was meant to be or not, this is still certainly the way it turned out... Other countries continued to fight under the own banner....Even French forces were divided by the loyalties, either to the Petain Vichy or to DeGualle, but the SS was the ONLY orgainisation fighting with many nationalities under the one banner of it's organisation. It's simply an administrative reality, however we may feel about the SS themselves....The EINSATZGRUPPE, for instance, were under HEER control, something many Werhmacht commanders hasten to gloss over. My feelings toward the SS are niether good nor bad....I'm an historian, with a need to simply record the TRUTH, however unplatable it may be... Regards, my friends of the pixel universe.... Christopher
yes indeed it has turned out that way..was it really planned that way? or because of depleting forces during the end of the war?
Foriegn conscripts were always going to be under the Waffen SS banner. It went through 3 distinct stages of growth.....think of it as the same representation in it's second and third stages as a "Foreign Legion", rather like the French original. When it was realised that volunteers from 'Germanic' nations were in insufficient numbers, the doors were thrown open to all. German Army service was really only open to German citizens, or divisions fighting under their own national banner, like the Spanish "Blue" Division, or the various Italian units serving under their own national flag on "Ost-front". Whether this was meant to be from the beginning or not, it was certainly the way it turned out.... This gives the Waffen SS a unique place in historical recording of WW2....there was simply no other organisation like it, with so many different nationalities. We still don't know quite who it was subordinate too, but it's top officers ignored Himmler more and more as his power grew, preferring to side with the regular Army on military matters. Service in a premier SS division for a German citizen was attractive for the higher pay, better conditions and lavish equipment privelages. The fact that these divisions served under the same multi-national organisation is an administrative anomaly, a hold over from the first stage growth period.... Cheers (Moro) B5N2Kate
Because the Waffen-SS turned out to be a very unique arm of the Wehrmacht in general. They started as an attempt by Himmler to maintain his place of ascendancy, and to guarantee SS importance and influence after the war. They became politicized soldiers very similar to their Heer brethren, yet very different as well. They had a different outlook on the war, and on their enemies that impacted the way they lived, fought, and died. Overall, they were a small element of the war, but they gained an importance both real and perceived, that to some is disproportionate to their true value.
My impression is that the SS handled a very minute portion of the foreign Nationals. And that for a very short time - most of the formations being abject failures.
@B5N2Kate Thanks for the info...but considering the small volunteers coming from the germany would you think that they'd still do an open door policy regarding membership in the SS if the war turned out favourable for the germans?..
Well not quite unique. By 1945 the 15th Army Group in Italy consisted if contingents drawn from: Basuto Bechuana Belgium Brazil Cyprus France Goumiers (from North Africa) Greece India Italy Nepal New Zealand Palestine Poland Rodriquez Seychelles South Africa Swazi Syro-Lebanan United Kingdom United States of America Various Caribbean Islands Yugoslavia The United States had one Division comprised entirely of Negro-Americans, though Clark was rather scathing about their fighting qualities. They also had a Regiment comprised of Japanese-Americans. The Italians were cosidered a dour and unhappy lot. General McCreery had to forbid one Italian General from attending his conferences because the Italian Commander depressed the other Commanders so. The Greeks too came in for some criticism from McCrerry as they would dutifully listen in to orders- and then go off an do exactly what they pleased. Credit must be given to the Staff Officers who had the unenviable task of controlling such a combination of different nationalities and cultures. When you consider that there were among others Sikhs, Japanese-Americans, Gurkhas, Irish, Maoris, and Jews, then surely this must be unique in history in being the only time that so many different cultures and religious persuasions have ever fought so selflessly together in a common cause. Note: I have not included the Canadians, who had been in Italy earlier in the campaign as I have found no source that will confirm that Canadian front line units were still in Italy in 1945 (the bulk of their forces having gone to the Northern Europe theatre). If anyone has any evidence to the contrary I would be pleased to hear it.
Why would you do that ? There were 4 main areas of the SS. Administrative, Military, Police and Foreign Nationals. grouping it into 2 really distorts it. The SS had a bureacracy that set policy, another that handled supply and economic matters and a third that provided training. Military forces as such have a specific function. Police forces are divided into homeland, foreign and security. Foreign Nationals are merely people that wish to defend their countries and look to the first people willing to arm them or are forcibly drafted into service- to call them SS isn't correct in most cases.
The SS was never a state within a state - Remember - History is written by the victors. The SS as such was primarily a Police Force. The Waffen Formations were created to let the Army Generals know that a Coup wasn't possible without a fight. Waffen Units were created from Gaurd Units, Prison Gaurd Units, Police and Foreign Volunteers ( on a Political basis. ) The SS Units had a large quantity of the most precious commodity in Germany - Labor. And As such were able to create a few economic enterprises. Remember that the SS was merely a division of the German Nazi Party and answered directly to it, regardless of Himmler's influence. The German state and Party organization that monitored the German population was mostly party functionaries - Not SS. THe Party under Bormann controlled the Personnel who ran the Party and the Government - Not the SS. I've found that people tend to shift way too much blame onto the SS and it takes away the ability to look at the grand picture. SS had responsibility for Security in occupied lands as the National Police Force. As such it was given a lot of weapons and equipment captured during german campaigns but not deemed fit for frontline service. As the Frontlines were pushed further to the rear these auxiliary forces were forced back along with the Germans and new methods of employment were used , the basic plan being to use these formations as a National Liberation Army after thorough training within German formations. After the July 20 Plot and Himmlers rise to the leadership of the Home Army there was a sharp spike in new formations of dubious quality as Himmer simply ignored the training and grouped these formations into haphazard groups. Himmler was powerful in his right, but he neither controlled the reigns of government, the Military or Civilian Administrations which his police were subordinate to or a large chunk of the economy. Calling the SS a state within a state is silly.
