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Allied Terror bombing of Germany

Discussion in 'Air War in Western Europe 1939 - 1945' started by Tomcat, Nov 10, 2014.

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  1. Nordwind511

    Nordwind511 Member

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    Little children, older people, women -- naturally they weren´t innocent - because they all were NAZI´s .... I thought we could talk about this topic a little more seriously.
     
  2. Nordwind511

    Nordwind511 Member

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    @lwd
    [SIZE=12pt]The bombing of Dresden (and several before and after) was performed by "Area bombing directive". [/SIZE]The Area bombing directive (Directive General No.5 (S.46368 / DCAS) was issued by the British Air Ministry on February 14, 1942. This statement informed the new commander in chief of the Bomber Command of the Royal Air Force (RAF), Arthur Harris, that he will be able to use his forces immediately without any limitation: "You are accordingly authorised to use your forces without restriction [...]" In addition, Harris was informed that the stakes are too focused on the morale of the enemy civilian population - in particular the of industrial workers: "It has been the primary objective of DECIDED did your operations shoulderstand be focused on the morale of the enemy civil population and in Particular the industrial workers".
    One day after the announcement of the statement of the RAF Chief of Staff Air Marshal Charles Portal was even more explicit; He wrote: "[...] I suppose it is clear did the aiming points will be the built up areas, and not, for instance, the dockyards or aircraft factories where synthesis are Mentioned in Appendix A. This must be made quite clear if it is not already understood. "

    Do you need more sources or do you agree that this raid was one which was performed by this "Area bombing directive" ...?
     
  3. Kai-Petri

    Kai-Petri Kenraali

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    Why could not this directive be changed? Finland was in war with the USSR and we never bombed or had artillery fire towards the Leningrad. Even if Hitler insisted we should. BTW and Harris was quite reluctant to help the bombing of Overlord/units in the rear areas which definitely could have helped the invasion. Is that like co-operation?
     
  4. Nordwind511

    Nordwind511 Member

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    Sorry, Kai-Petri I am a littebit confused about your post or my english isn´t that good.
    Finland was in war the USSR, right. But the directive was issued for a special kind of air-war against Germany. There couldn´t be bombing or artillery fire by that directive towards Leningrad, right? Maybe I missunderstood what you want to mention
     
  5. Nordwind511

    Nordwind511 Member

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    You´re talking about the "Paris Gun" - what do you mean exactly? K 12?
     
  6. Tamino

    Tamino Doc - The Deplorable

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    Civilians? Is it possible to talk about the civilians in a total war? What was the Volkssturm? The Nazi Partisans? Flak defenses were manned by women and youths too! Civilians?

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  7. Skipper

    Skipper Kommodore

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    The Pariser kanon was WW1
     
  8. Bundesluftwaffe

    Bundesluftwaffe New Member

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    LINK DELETED
     
  9. arca

    arca Member

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    IMO allied strategic bombing was justified from multiple aspects. Germany was waging total and genocidal war on humanity and itself set the rules for that war. Any means were allowed to shorten it and to incapacitate the system that was still killing tens of thousands soldiers and civilians each day the war protracted. Of course that most civilians were innocet in sense they didn't commit crimes, but they were the living fabric that made the monster that was the Third Reich; each worker was contributing to it's economy ,farmer was feeding the troops and even unemployed or old were sending clothes or money for the war.
    It was mentioned before that Germans were fighting to the bitter end because they didn't want to surrender to the Soviets. But one should ask himself why were they so terrified of the Soviets? Had it maybe something do to with their sadistic extermination and terror orgies in the east? Or in the Balkans perhaps. Where hundreds of civilians were regularly killed in reprisals for any sabotage and partisan prisoners or wounded massacred without exception. These things I know from my grandparents who saw it themselves. When I talked to them, they just couldn't comprehend what does one mean by 'excessive bombing of nazi Germany'.
    The real question is- should the victors, the United nations be above such behavior, for the sake of themselves? Of course they should and they were the moment the Nazis surrendered. No Germans were terrorized, after the end of hostilities, on the contrary they were fed, and taken care of,in the west as well as in the east, despite that being a huge effort for victorious societies themselves exhausted by the war. If Soviets decided it's only fair to implement eye for an eye principle, Germany and it's people would've been whipped from the face of the earth.
    As german president said recently on 13th February Dresden commemoration :"We know who started the murderous war... we know. And that is why we don't and we will never forget the victims of German warfare,"
     
  10. Nordwind511

    Nordwind511 Member

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    @Tamino
    I am not interested to discuss this topic on your level. Maybe you could post some pics of little babies or kids as german combatants ... :mad:
    Maybe your knowledge about this subject is on a very poor level or you only try to cause an unqualified reaction.
    If iit´s your knowledge I will help you a littlebit: the Volkssturm was a German military formation in the final stages of World War II. They were no Partisans, because an armband with the inscription "German Volkssturm - Wehrmacht" made his relatives identified as combatants, even when they fought in the uniform of the Hitler Youth or in civilian clothes.



    Your pictures and your post has nothing to do with the topic we´re talking about here

    @Skipper
    You´re right - the "Pariser Geschütz" was a German kanon at the end of WW I. The Germans Wehrmacht ordered a similar gun under the designation K 12. This gun fired in 1940 from France to England. The German artillery unit - the railway battery 701 fired during the whole war 83 times in total. The gun was able to fire shells for a distance between 30 and 80 miles. More details you may look here:http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/21-cm-Kanone_12_%28E%29
     

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  11. Bundesluftwaffe

    Bundesluftwaffe New Member

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    Per request deleted.
     
  12. KJ Jr

    KJ Jr Well-Known Member

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    Are you serious with this? Or am I misunderstanding this for sarcasm? Gordon Duff and his website are well known for conspiracy theories and holocaust denial.
     
  13. Nordwind511

    Nordwind511 Member

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    I agree with lots of subjects you wrote. Especially that Germany started the murderous war and I agree if our president said that we will never forget the vitims of German warfare. I also agree that Germans killed thousands of innocent civilians during the war, especially on the eastern front. And I call this WAR CRIME actions by Germans and I have no excuse for that. I also understand that russian troops killed innocent Germans 1945 by an implemtation of an eye to eye principle -taking revenge what happened during Barbarossa to their families.
    But I didn´t agree if you call the Germans a "living fabric that was the Third Reich" and if you use it as a justification for any kind of fighting against NAZI-Germany to shorten the war. This is too easy.
    I think that all these kind of arguments will lead us away form the main question if "moral bombing" or "bombing with the main aim to kill civilians and destroy living structures" is a strategy which is allowed or not (=WAR CRIME) by war laws.

    Besides - I don´t take part at this discussion to talk about other kind of war-crime actions - no matter which side is involved and what may happened. These subjects should be discussed somewhere else ...
     
  14. Bundesluftwaffe

    Bundesluftwaffe New Member

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    Don´t know the guy... but seems I agree with him on this topic. Where does this site deny holocaust ? If true I will delete the link and find a better one. Thanks for the info, my friend. At least this site is from "veterans" so they should know a bit about war, or don´t they?

    But I have a question, is anyone who is not your opinion on this topic a holocaust denier and/or conspiracy nut ? Cause I noted in 1-2 other threads that this was brought up without evidence already. Btw: It would help if people supply the proofs directly in their posts and I don´t need to ask for it everytime....(like also in the Ukraine thread, it get´s a bit tiring if people make statements and don´t supply evidence...)

    But cause I am a nice guy here is another link:

    http://www.onlinemilitaryeducation.org/posts/10-most-devastating-bombing-campaigns-of-wwii/

    ...."ere we are not considering the equally horrific and never matched atomic bombing raids on Nagasaki and Hiroshima; rather, we speak of the meticulously planned and often prolonged campaigns that razed cities to the ground and devastated entire urban populations. Here, then, are the 10 most devastating bombing campaigns of WWII."




    @ Nordwind: I agree with your view, but be advised we are total minority here, cause the total majority here wants also total war.... :(
     
  15. kamakiri

    kamakiri New Member

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    Biased? Nahhh! "environmentally catastrophic bombs." Hmm. I know of several types of environment-friendly bombs. Yep, the nation's top scientists went out of their way to create bombs that landed on populations and exploded floral scents of red and white hydrangea mixed with the smell of new-mown hay.

    I know that this is not a well-known fact, but hey I'm here to inform, not to castigate! And not ALL bombs were "catastrophic." Some of them exploded into a huge number of smiley faces that made their "victims" all suddenly have an urge to stop what they were doing and hug the person closest to them.

    Do us all a big favor and read Dresden, by Frederick Taylor.

    "Terror bombing" is an oxymoron, my friend. No one bombs someone because they like them.

    Sorry. I only react to things that are absurd and my job is not done -- there are 5,000,000 other sites I have to go look at.
     
  16. Bundesluftwaffe

    Bundesluftwaffe New Member

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    I would say, Children and animals are always innocent. And see how many of them died.
     
  17. Nordwind511

    Nordwind511 Member

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    @Bundesluftwaffe

    You´re probably right about the majority, but I hope we will try to find a more serious answer. An answer which is focused on the subject we´re discussing here, not who´s guilty for this or that. And I hope that the answer will not be like that: "A total war allows every kind of behaviour and strategy, if it only will shorten the war - no matter what it is". This could be a justification for actions I will always call "war crime", nevertheless these things were done by Germans ...
     
  18. kamakiri

    kamakiri New Member

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    Umm . . . sorry, but I just have to post this. Perhaps you can tell me who said it:

    "Do you believe with the Führer and us in the final total victory of the German people? Are you and the German people willing to work, if the Führer orders, 10, 12 and if necessary 14 hours a day and to give everything for victory? Do you want total war? If necessary, do you want a war more total and radical than anything that we can even imagine today?"
     
  19. green slime

    green slime Member

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    Re: "the Ukraine thread"

    You never supplied any evidence, what you provided was opinions, with very little, if any, facts. You also denied evidence contrary to your postulation, and lastly, refused to comment on evidence proving certain of your statements wrong, by saying "You didn't have time to look into it."

    Apparently, you do however, have time to make snide remarks, in unrelated threads.

    The "total majority" here does not want war. That is your opinion, and a misguided one.
     
  20. GRW

    GRW Pillboxologist WW2|ORG Editor

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    Oh, here we go. I knew someone would post this sooner or later.
    The Nazis never murdered/tortured anyone/bombed cities of course, and had they been first to get the atom bomb would have used it as a power source for the general good of the population.
    Reminds me of the idiots on the AHF who claimed only the Allies ever committed atrocities, but always spectacularly failed to provide any evidence beyond BS websites like that one.
     
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