Any thoughts?

Starting with Chinese people's ass.

I don't think that Norway's nationalized oil/gaz companies are used as tools by the government to buy and take over TV networks, and turn them into state propaganda, like Gazprom did in Russia.

 

Thankyou 18mile.

Really? Do you have proof that Chinese capitalism is any different from any other place? Yeah, it's corrupt, there are people there living hand to mouth ect but that condition exists wherever there is capitalism. It is a byproduct of capitalism is it not? How many children in America have no healthcare? How os China so different? Look at the corruption in America. Or are you referring to something else?

Norway doesn't have a state sponsored channel? I don't know but one of the most hypocritical states on earth does. Britain, it's called the BBC. A lot of countries have their own government sponsored telecommunication structures. There is more than one tv station in Russia. The parties in the electioncould have (and did) buy airtime, for christsakes, I watched a debate between the Communists and the Other Russia party in Belarus.

The problem they did have was funding, the parties didn't have enough money to get the access they needed. This in itself is telling, why wouldn't the Russian businesses, people ect donate to these parties? Hmmmm?

Because they didn't want anything to do with them.

Don't bring up the people that were not allowed to donate to the parties from outside the country either, it is against the law for NGOs/foreign interests in most (if not all) countries to be involved in other countries elections. Boris Berezhovsky isn't buying anything in Russia just as Hugo Chavez or Fidel Castro is not supporting their candidates in an American election.

 

I'm not talking about health care in China, I'm talking about the most basic civic and political rights

I'm not talking about an official public TV network,
I'm talking about a government controled energy company being used to buy and take over private medias including TV networks, so they "clean" them of any opposition or critical opinion and turn them into governmental tools.

Anyways, you opened this thread to ask people's thoughts on Russian elections, my thoughts is these parliament elections have been highjacked into a personal plebiscit by Putin's party, to bypass the constitution that forbade him to be the next Russian president - I bet you know why this kind of rule is for.

And the elections themsleves have been prepared by silencing (sometimes definately) the medias, journalists and opposition, and sometimes just cheating the vote (ROFL at Grozny score : 98% - even Stalin would have felt it's a bit too much).

So I may agree on the facts that a majority of Russians maybe want Putin to stay in power, that Putin is maybe the best bet for 2007 Russia, and I don't care whether there are public companies or not, if it's capitalistic or not, and I've got no hidden agenda to weaken Russia lol.

But I have yet to see how the lack of public health or the existence of a public energy company, in this or that country, changes anything in these Russian 2007 elections (or maybe you want a 'X country rulez, Y country sucks, X president is a god, Y is a prick' type of debate, in which case I will just leave the sandbox )

I'm just saying Putin is turning Russia less democratic everyday, based on facts you can see in many serious free and independant medias, and you can't negate these facts whithout loosing your credibility, like Putin just has lost of lot of credibility on the international scene.

 

But Putin has broken no laws, and his biggest opposition were the Communists which received 11% of the vote.

Highjacked the elections? Who or what party gave Putin such a scare? Other then Communists and Fair Russia ( both which earned the required 7% for seats in parliment ) everyone else received less then 5%....... Like it or not, it was the people that chose Putin's party NOT Putin forcing the people to choose his.

One thing is for certain, some mistakes might have been made ( on purpose or by accident )as there always are in a democratic election.

 

The verdict is in, Putin nominated a presidential cadidate to take his place!

Dmitry Medvedev

 

Just read that he is a Led Zeppelin, Deep Purple and Black Sabbath Fan!

 

Hi Slava, sorry about that ;-)) Im very good at double-negatives. :-D

What I have is not much but, being that pootin was a good little nazi-er I mean, a good little commie, he has also as far as I can remember, quit the party nor denounced it. Taking any knowledge I have of pootin is all from various news agencies such as: CNN (aka) the communist news network, Fox News, ABC, NBC and CBS (for all that you can get out of them-wich aint much) and MSNBC-which I rarely watch. Oh and, I almost forgot, I listen to the TXCN which is the Texas Cable News Network. I tend to believe more of what I hear listening to these folks, than all the others combined. And no, its not only just because they are a Texas Network ;-))

 

But surely you have to see a problem with US media describing any leader of any country who doesnt exactly kneel in favor of US interests?

What I find interesting is how Boris Yeltsin, who was an alcoholic, weak and a mindless leader in control of a country which on the brink of total collapse, sat so well with the West and is hailed as a hero even till this day

But a strong, sober and shrewd Putin which has rebuilt ( and there is still much to be done ) a country from total callapse is considered a despot bringing democracy to an end.....

Such a comparison might perhaps show the true colors of the West's best interests?

I also find it interesting how Russia is still being criticized for the lack of democracy almost 20 years after the collapse of Communism, while keeping quiet about China. Perhaps if the U.S. had a trillion dollars invested in Russia then the talk of "lack of democracy" in Russia might also cease?

 

Hi Slava, I can't honestly argue with any of your points and, im sure its all probably true. However, I do wish that Boris Yeltsin was still in charge of things. Wasn't pootin an ex KGB guy? or head of some Org like that? If so, how much of my trust (as a Westerner) can I be expected to place in Vlad pootin's hands?

 

Now this my friend i cannot argue with!

Im sure that many Westerners deep down wish that Yeltsin was still in power, he did afterall serve them better then his own people

As for Putin, yes he was a spy in the KGB.... But a Westerners paranoia of the past in not after all his fault.

 

Yeltsin had his good moves, especialy during the Communist putch, but he was merely an alcoolic puppet who sold his country's wealth.
As per Yeltsin being a democrat, if we consider corruption is not a breach in democracy, well that's ok ,
if we consider sending tanks to fire on the parliament is not a breach in democracy, well that's ok etc...

Russian economy collapsed, huge numbers of low and medium classes people ended up depending on wellfare.

Putin put the country back on its tracks.

But the 2007 elections were not fair, as I posted above it was not a massive cheating, and Putin's party would probably have won fair election, but the dices are now loaded in Russia.

And I'm not quiet about China, I support the boycott of the incoming Olympic Games

 

Yeah, perhaps the dice were loaded in the elections but apparently the dice were thrown by the people who got what they wanted.
There was no viable opposition because the opposition had nothing to offer, the communists want the old ways back, Kasparov is on the payroll of the oligarchs. The rest are just a gaggle of nutjobs that have no clue what is going on or what in the hell to do.
Now Putin and his people have the mandate of the people, that makes them even more powerful. Government for the good of the country and the people. You can't get more democratic than that.

 

Its almost as if I say this

 

What can I say Slonik, there's something about Russia that just takes you away. It's just so f**king HEROIC!!

 

Yes you can get more democratic : fair elections, freedom of speech, checks and balances are some examples

Anyways, I pretty much said my thoughts on the subject.

I'm sure Putin and his team will do a good work, I'm sure they wezre the best bet.

I just hope that, if some day a majority of Russian people want to get rid of him - which supposes they can have a fair information about what's going on - , they will be democraticaly allowed to do so

 

As a Easterner, how much trust and faith could they have had in Bushy Sr.?
Ex CIA. Heck, as an American,I didn't have any trust in him or his little boy. I read his lips.(New World Order) Putin is doing for his Nation what ours should be doing for us. Putting the Nation FIRST.

 

Slava, not really. Most of us over hear think pootin is a slimy little c********r. I think it's more than been proved when that dude in England was poisoned (sorry I forget his name at this time) for speaking out against pootin.

 

All I can say to this my friend is, MERRY CHRISTMAS ;-))

 

Hi Choc, about pootin putting their economy back on track. The vast majority of how she could do that is because most of the countries that Russia had been in debt with; forgave the entire debts. Otherwise had that not happened, vlad would not be flying as high as she is these days. ;-))

 

I don't know how much trust one should have in Bush but, even though I openly admit I voted for him twice, I did so in oder to keep assholes like al (Bush "stole the elections" gore and john "heinz catsup" kerry; out of the oval office.

I too do not believe in this "one world order" crap and are totally against it. When I first heard that term mentioned, that made the blonde hairs on the back of my neck stand at attention. One begins to wonder what this one world order crap is and how far have we gone to becoming one? Hmmmm, many EUROPEAN nations dissolved their national currency to have the EURO as their currency. That sounds a bit to me like they are one more step closer to having a new world order or one world order. THANK GOD, that ENGLAND decided to stay away from having the Euro as their currency. I want no part of it and neither does the vast majority of people everywhere.

Because of all this said above, that is why I flat out refuse to give my vote to any fragging democrat especially with the likes of billery clinton and bareback obama. Neither of those two has what it takes to run this country and neither one of them have much experiance at anything. Take obama, that guy has less experiance than billery does. It's a scary thought that (to put this in terms of age) we might be having either an 8 year old in office or a two year old.

All I say is that whomever is chosen for the Republican side (Huckabee, Thompson, Tancredo) thay better win or were finished, as a great nation.

[ Steps off of the soapbox now, walks down the aisle and exits the room quietly]