Atomic bomb legacy haunts Hiroshima families

vahistoryfan,
Generally speaking, the term "jap" is considered in today’s world as a derogatory term. Regardless of what your personal views are on the term, this is a multi-national forum inhabited by members from different countries. "Jap" may be just a shortened abbreviation for you but generally speaking, the term is focused more on the intent and meaning rather than the word itself, like all racial slurs. The only exceptions to this rule are when directly quoting period documents, or from Veterans themselves. Please refrain from using this word.

 

Fully agree with you. In other words, THEY started it, WE finished it.

Oh and just so everyone knows? my reply here is to the fact of their sneak attack on PH and nothing else. ;-))

 

Ease up, buddy. You need a little better insight into this matter. You don't have to go on a rant for us.

Just to clear things up for you:
1. the Japanese government at the time was under the influence of the military and the imperialism bandwagon. Not Hirohito's fault
2. We actually owe the Japanese an apology at the end of the war
3. The Japanese at that time followed the teachings of bushido, which meant that surrender meant loss of honor. If you remember what the whole "duel" thing was in Europe and America, it was over honor and defending it. If a man backed out of a duel, they lost their honor and in most cases would be shamed by society and denied public services such as shops or a job. Imagine that to a bit higher level. Death before surrender, that what that is. That says why many Japanese civillians and soldiers killed themselves when the Americans arrived in Okinawa and Iwo Jima and told them to surrender.
4. Just one nuke was enough to level an entire city. If we were to nuke all of Japan, we would be no better than Hitler and the Nazis in Germany
5. The Japanese were smart enough to develop a quick fighter like the Zero, but believed that it was enough to keep aerial superiority. Development continued, but there were some flaws.
6. Hirohito was the one who surrendered to the Allies and told the whole country to do so in order to prevent more destruction and death
7. In the Art of War, Sun Tzu states that taking a country or army whole is more desirable than to destroy it
8. The Code of Hammurabi may apply a little here, but in this case, we don't have to deal it back one thousand fold
9. The sneak attack on Pearl Harbor ties in with the use of the ninja in feudal Japan, who snuck in to make a kill and left quickly to avoid unwanted frontal confrontations

The reason why we owe the Japanese an apology was because of the bombs we dropped. Japan would still feel the effects of the nuclear radiation at least a century from now. That in turn would cause cancer, birth defects, radiation poisoning, sterility, and a lot of other stuff. I mean, it's just enough to create that much destruction to force a surrender, but the aftereffects are too much. the nukes may have been necessary to prevent loss of more life, but right now it still has the potential to cause unwanted effects.

I suggest that you think about what you're going to say before you post next time. I live in Hawaii and a certain percentage of the population is Japanese. If they read this, I would bet a pretty penny that the issei, nisei,or sansei here would getvery, and I mean very angry about what you called them. Even if you were fighting in the war, it's common courtesy to at least respect the enemy alongside your own troops. Besides, if we did nuke Japan off the face of the earth, there wouldn't be any anime for an otaku like me to enjoy.

 

Right on the money and point well made

However; this bit of rant:

Not so much.

 

While the first part is accurate there seems to be considerable debate as to just what Hirohito's role was.

For what?

It's not clear what this is in reference to.

It was also rather beyond what we could do at the time. It would also hardly have been popular with most Americans the Chinese and Koreans however would probably have approved.

The Zero was indeed a superb example of a aircraft engineered to meet the desired specifications. Not sure how this is relevant to the topic at hand though.

Again I'm not sure what the relevance is.

Does it? If so how do you relate this to the Bushido statement above?

We owe them no apology at all for that. Especially since it save many Japanese lives.

What effects? and how do you think they compare with say the mercury polution in some of their communities? Are you aware that the post war death rates among the atomic bomb survivors were actually higher than the Japanese average?

There were some post blast effects of this sort but it's pretty well submerged into the background now and for a goodly number of years other factors have been more significant in relation to these.

The after affects were not as severe as you seem to indicate nor were they known at the time. There is indeed still some post blast effects but they are pretty minimal at this point. Note that Americans are also suffering from them.

 

sorry for some inaccuracies in my last post. I was just going on memory there and it might not have been clear enough. However, everyone does have their own opinion. While the bomb did save both American and Japanese lives, the radiation prior to the blasts might have been too much. As someone against conflict unless really necessary, most of the time I tend to exaggerate the negative consequences of conflict rather than minimalize it. As for the bushido/dueling comment earlier, I was making a point (or at least trying to anyway). The Japanese were unwilling to surrender even though it was clear that they were about to lose the war. That unwillingness to surrender is a part of their culture for centuries, so they have to uphold that ideal until the end. As for the apology part, the initial blasts should have been enough to force a surrender, the post blast effects may have been a little too much. Right now, everyone in the Pacific area is suffering because of that. The Sun Tzu part was supposed to be a little reason for why Japan shouldn't be blasted off the face of the earth like in vahistoryfan's suggestion. Sorry for having to make connections like that. I just wanted to at least try to help him understand the Japanese point of view in the war. Being in AP World history, I tend to get a little carried away with stuff like this.

 

1. the Japanese government at the time was under the influence of the military and the imperialism bandwagon. Not Hirohito's fault

All were under the influence of the emperor - All decisions had to be through him. He had advisors that fought and argued there point of view, but Hirohito's word was always final. Statements 1 and 6 sort of contradict each other.

2. We actually owe the Japanese an apology at the end of the war
That is so wrong for so many reasons...They should be thanking us. We SPARED their people and country when we had every right to wipe it clean and start again. It became the 2nd biggest economy in the world, thanks to the United States...i could go on, but point made.

4. Just one nuke was enough to level an entire city. If we were to nuke all of Japan, we would be no better than Hitler and the Nazis in Germany
No, they weren't that strong. The majority of destruction was due to the flimsy manner their buildings were constructed and the amount of wood and paper involved. The few stones buildings were left standing...A catholic preist sat in his stone monestary only 1000 yards from detonation point...he heard what he thought was thunder...the building shook and a weird white glow peirced the room through the arrow slit windows...he was fine! Went out to see what the bloody hell just happened. The light and heat accompanying it (the point of cascadence) was the killer, not the "blast". Only a very small percentage of Uranium was able to be fissioned at the time...we have come a long way.

5. The Japanese were smart enough to develop a quick fighter like the Zero, but believed that it was enough to keep aerial superiority. Development continued, but there were some flaws.

Hmmm...There is a stack of evidence to suggest the Zero was a "sharpened" version of the Harvard/Texan (The Japanese wouldn't admit that though)...I was surprised and not surprised when some Japanese ground crews were asked to take part in the filming of Tora Tora, where they "vamped" a bunch of Texans to look like Zeros...The Japanese ground crew said they were very impressed and couldn't tell it from the real thing...Some investigation of the 40 something countries which bought the design (including the Luftwaffe!) should give you some doubts aswell.

And, has been spoken about, the radiation effects have been surprisingly few...the earth WAS turned before rebuild.

I still admire your current knowledge.

 

Radiation prior to the blast?

You do know that nobody really knew what was going to happen or what the after affects of the explosions was going to be or how radiation was going to play a role in the Bomb's perception? As far as the after affects being too much; it's not like they were able to turn up or turn down the radiation, it wasn't on a rheostat.

 

That's not so clear. There is a tradition in Japan for whowever has control of the emporer speaking for him. The whole Tokagawa Shogunate is a prime example of this. Note that Hirihit's actually speaking to the public to declare surrender was almost unheard of.

I saw this debated once before. Perhaps on the j-aircraft IJNA board and the argument against this seemed the stronger to me.

 

Protective Custody is a polite way to put it. Not unlike the way Cameron Hooker kept the young girl in 'protective custody' in a box under his bed for 7 years

 

We don't owe Japan any apology. Unlike the Germans, the Japanese were sneaky. No Pearl Harbor, there would not have been no Hiroshima. I still think that Japan has no remorse for what the atrocities they did. I believe that there are still lots of Japanese war criminals out there who are getting away with the dastardly atrocities they imposed on millions of innocent civilians as well as Allied war prisoners. Been there done that.

 

I'll agree with that.

Tell that to the Poles and the Checks.

Given the way the war was fought in the Pacfic, Japan's actions in China, and especially some of the events on Okinawa I'm not convinced of that.

 

The Russians might disagree with your opinion of who was more "brutal".

This post IMO is a perfect example of hipocrocy which exists in some of our American rogues on this forum. Not singling you out Vahistory fan, but some on here claim "The Red Army was just as bad as the Wehrmacht and Nazis when it came to the treatment of civilians and POW's" yet when speaking of the war in the Pacific hold your view even though in comparison to the Germans, the Japanese did virtually nothing to the American people. Cant even begin to imagine what your thoughts might be had it been Japan which invaded the U.S. resulting in the deaths of more than 20 million US civillians.

As for the Atomic bombs, I believe Truman made the right call. Dont like your cities being destroyed and your islands taken from you, then dont start wars.....

Im still waiting for Japan to openely and publicly acknowledge what she had done in China and denounce the atrocites instead of denying them or playing them down.

 

June 22, 1941 was pretty sneaky.