Battle of Britain

I´m not sure whether hitler was interested in controlling Britain in any way. He just wanted not to have Britain against himself.

But the only way that was achievable in 1940 was by the defeat of the RAF, the removal of the Churchill government and the introduction of a (Probably puppet) sympathetic, anti-Bolshevic regime. I doubt this would be achieved without some kind of German military presence on UK soil.

RAF success was key to preventing that and convincing the world that further resistance was not a futile gesture.

 

Of course you are right.

My point is just, that hitler would have certainly agreed to any peace with Britain, without conditions, if only Churchill had aquiesced to that.

 

Hitler would surely have been ready to make peace with Britain to have his hands free in the east.

But I do not doubt, had he been sucessfull in Russia, he would later have returned against Britain, because he would not allow any other great power next to Germany in Europe(and arguably in the world).

 

Maybe yes, maybe not.
AFAIK he respected Britain and its role in the world, as a champion of Germanic rule over the "lower" races. Eventually, there would probably come some misunderstandings, maybe leading to a war. But hitlers idee fixe was the Ukrainian lebensraum. He would need decennia to make this land look like Germany and he might even enjoy civilizing the land. Remember his and Speer´s dreams of beautiful, magnificent buildings, new cities... He might have chosen to use the rest of his days overlooking the dream coming true.

Anyways, it is only some totally unacademic extrapolizing.

 

Have a look at some of the post conquest plans Hitler and the Nazi's had for GB. I don't think there would have been a lot left to admire.

 

canambridge, can you please give some references? I haven´t read about it.

 

William L. Shirer's The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich has a section on "If the Invasion[Sealion] Had Succeeded".

All able bodied males between 17 - 45 to be interned and dispatched to the Continent. "In no other country, not even Poland, had the Germans begun with such a step.

Orders were, according to Shirer, "designed to ensure the systematic plunder of the island and terrorization of its inhabitants."
"Everything but normal houshold stocks were to be confiscated at once. Hostages would be taken."

"But the real terror was to be meted out by Himmler and the S.S." Professor Dr. Franz Six, who was later active in Russia with the S.S. Einsatzgruppen committing wholesale massacres, was to direct the work of six RHSA Einsatzkommando from London.

Shirer mentions Peter Fleming's book, Operation Sea Lion as having more details, but I can't find my copy right now. I have read other accounts as well, I'll to find some time to look for more.

 

It looks like Hitler was going to use the blonde beasts as a cannon-meat and enslave the rest. It agrees well with his Anschauung that Britain, as the center of European finance was infested to the bone with Jews and masons.

He was really a crazy bastardo, Schickelgruber.

 

I don't know where you got that from but I am sorry that was not the case.

The internment of the males would only have been for the duration of the war, as in France I believe.

Dr Six was given the orders to round up the academics of non preferred origins. Nothing new. Most treasures were to be confiscated and sent to Germany with the best going to his home of Linz. The Channel Islands bear testament to this. The Germans there had to queue and take their turn in shops. They had to pay the going price for their goods.


Extract from http://www.thisisguernsey.com/code/show ... eID=000042


As time went on, money was not a problem because, as he explained, the Germans were paying rent for the many houses they were occupying.


So although occupied the British isles would have faired fairly well under Nazi occupation, providing the boat wasn't rocked. Hitler new that if the current government went to Canada, he would have to install a puppet government and show the rest of the Empire he wanted to trade, and that the new government in London and the re- imposed king was the true leader of the Empire.

 

The Occupation of the Channel Islands is an interesting area, and one that is currently being re-investigated.

Yes, the German occupation there was less harsh than in most other places - why?
Propaganda...

There are pictures of smiling German soldiers next to smiling 'British' (Jersey) policemen. Accounts of how nice the Germans were to the British. Basically, it was an exercise in "if you surrender, we will be this nice to all Britain".

In my view.

 

Was that shown in Britain before the end of the war?

 

The same in Denmark. The occupation there was with the Dannish government and civil service and king till 1943 when the government understood that it was time to go and went . The civil service and king functioned till the end. Only German Governor and a handfull of troops were the occupying force throughout the war.
Copenhagen was stormed by a batallion of Wehrmacht privates on bicycles.
After the surrender the Germans demanded Danish weapons. Danes volunteered to instruct Germans in proper use of the equipment.
Then - Germans asked the Danish government for the right to recruit young Danish volunteers to waffen SS. Government said OK and 3000 volunteered.
When the war was almost over - the partisans began to be active. After the war, when the exhausted ex-SS soldiers came back home, the ny government thought it would be nice to show how much Denmark was a Western Ally and jailed all those who survived for 1 - 3 years.

So - German occupation can be different things. hitler was rather nice to Germanic peoples so long they behaved.

 

GP - The quotes are direct form the Rise and Fall of the Third Reich. Shirer quotes the orders captured from German archives at the end of the war. It isn't the only place I've read similar remarks. The harshness planned for Nazi occupied Britain was supposedly a reflection of Hitler's annoyance over the Brits continuing to resist when they should have submitted and followed the lead of the maser race.
I haven't really seen all that much written, can you point me towards anything new, like the internment plans only be for the duration ofr instance. Thanks in advance.

 

how would the grond battle go? I'm ingnoring about the air battle as well as sea...let's say the germans manage to land a large number of troops with all the necessary supplies in britain...would the british exhaust the germans or would the british cripple under the onslaught?

 

There was a program on the BBc which used captured papers from WW2, in it they used the papers to reconstruct what may have happened. The Nazis had earmarked the top schools and unversities to educate their own.

The Nazi machine would have Killed off undesirables and been hard on insurengcy, but there is no eveidence of destroying the country. No matter how hard Britain resisted the empire was worth more in tact thean given to the US or taken by Japan. I will try and copy the program to disk and post it if you wish.

This may take time as I am not very good at this sort of thing.

 

Now there is a question...

In 1941, frankly, Britain crumbles.
Pitiful coastal defenses.
A small army, only recently evacuated from France, with few tanks (and fewer useful tanks), few vehicles, few guns (artillery and AT guns) and even few machineguns/rifles.
Conscription has not yet filled out their ranks, and the LDV (which became the Home Guard) is only just forming.
The defensive works (pill-boxes, tank traps, 'stop lines' etc) are only just beginning to be planned, let alone built.

If Germany had managed to cross the Channel and maintain a supply route shortly after France was defeated - we were gone.

Later in the war, it gets a bit more of an interesting debate.

 

if, if, if.....
If hitler decided in favor of Seeloewe he would have got Stalin on his neck within weeks (the whole Continent without any useful panzer fist, totally defenceless).

So, don´t be afraid. Germans would not have done you anything (no time). Soviets would, a little later.

 

Except that the Soviets really didn't have a fleet to match the RN.

Was the Red Army ready for invasion in the summer of 1940?

 

Dang, I was about to ask about how the Soviets would do any better at invading Britain than Hitler did...

 

4000 amphibious tanks (good enough for La Manche)
Ca. 1 million parachutists with commando training
Almost 300 combat readysubmarines
Several thousands airplanes of all classes
including hundreds of cargo gliders (some of them - made of strong gummi - in order to stiff them off with compressed air, then let the air off and carry back home for reuse as a parcel)

I guarantee for the truthfullness of the data