Best fighter of ww2?

I like to bring attention to some lesser known aircraft, I often get the impression many people are concerned with only the most famous American, German and British aircraft and so neglect Japanese, Italian, Russian and other nations' aircraft, some of which were superb, like the Italian Reggiane 2005 and Macchi C.205.

I suppose putting the Typhoon down as a great fighter is perhaps a little optimistic, but I included it because it became so fantastically successful and is relevatively unknown compared to Spitfires and Mustangs - and I thought it deserved a little praise.

 

Martin :

Thanks for the adresse and contact for the Mossie association. I knew about the organization but did not have the particulars. Now if I could get to PRO and obtain some captured docs I would be quite happy.....

E

 

Hallo!

I agree with greenjacket. Beside, Wilkommen to the forums! We expect to see you around oftenly! Great choices! I just love them! I am also very interested in Japanesse, Russian and Italian aeroplanes because they built very good machines! But they are not so famous! I do still think that bloody P-51D was the best fighter, but in early Pacific war, there is no doubt about Zero's hegemony and supremacy! And the George was supperb (spelling?) also!

The Russians made very fine weapons from all kinds! Mighty tanks and very good air-craft, but there were not good pilots to make the fine aeroplanes effective.

Mosquito? Beautiful, nice, very good everything but I do not like it.

And if we talk about beautiful aeroplanes the Spitfire would win.

But still my favourite of all time if Me-110!!!! Nice fighter pilot, heavy fighter and dive-bomber!!!

 

Had the Ta 152 been ready earlier and developed to it's full potential without the air intake/supercharger problems then it would have given the P-51 a real problem in the air. In fact this high altitude beauty was only flown at medium range taking on Soviet a/c, P-47's and the Tempest.......

E

 

Forget my ignorance, Erich, but what the hell is Ta-152. I have never heard of it. Please, tell me all the story...

 

The late-model Focke-Wulf Fw-190D series were redesignated Ta-152 in honour of their designer, Kurt Tank.

I must disagree about the Bf/Me-110. As a dayfighter and close-support aircraft the machine performed well against the Poles, and in the Low Countries and France, but as soon as it started escorting bombers against RAF Fighter Command during the Battle of Britain it was eaten alive by both the Spitfire and Hurricane and in response the Luftwaffe had to start sending 109's to escort the 110's. It could not hold its own in combat with fighters, although to be fair it had more success as a nightfighter.

[EDITED FOR SPELLING]

[ 27 June 2002, 06:20 PM: Message edited by: Greenjacket ]

 

Friedrich, meine freund, you have never heard of the fastest piston engine a/c of WW 2, and your beautiful country produced it ? ! You must check all books on German a/c in Deutsch and you will have some interesting though very vague materials covering this sleek airplane. It has to be my favorite besides the Me 262 and the Ju 88G-6 night fighter.

It was only flown by one Luftwaffe unit and that was my cousins JG 301. First in january 1945 with III./JG 301 until the end of the war. Towards march or so of 45 the Geschwader stab was outfitted with the bird, Ta 152H-0 and H-1's. There were also protypes and C-0's and C-1's that were stripped for parts. Luftwaffe pilots who had flown the Fw 190A-8 and A-9 plus the Dora/D-9 exclaimed that it was the fastest a/c they had ever flown. The a/c actually flew itself. Trials had been flown with the a/c peaking out at over 485 miles per hour and reaching very close to 50,000 feet. The a/c was armed with a 3cm waffen through the prop and two 2cm waffen , one in each inner wing. The closest I could tell you about the looks is if you stretched out a Dora 9 in the fuselage, give it a squared tail, and lenghtened the wings for more altitude.. The intake supercharger on the right side / intake was huge and the cooling grills and prop were about the same size as the Dora's. I have interviewd pilot's Willi reschke who flew grüne 1 and Walter Loos who flew grüne 4 and they both really admired the a/c and also stated as well as most of the JG 301 pilots that flew this plane that had it been available in early 44 they would have wiped the Mustangs from the sky.......Hmmmmm, well I don;t know about those remarks but it definately would have been giving itself a good show in the air.
At present I can think of only two books on the a/c. Monogram close-up # 24, which is long out of print and Focke Wulf Ta 152 by Dietmar Hermann whcih was translated from the work "Fw 190 Ta 152, Der Weg zum Höhenjäger by Aviatic Verlag. English version is from Schiffer Publications. Pilot Willi reschke also wrote his own book on JG 301/302 which also covers the a/c but more on the operations of the two units really.
Eagle Editions. com will be publishing their work some day.....hope this winter on JG 301 which will cover in depth the useage of the Tank Ta 152, with many new profiles, photos and pilot memories. This maybe one of the finest aviation publications printed once available.
Friedrich check www.eagle-editions.com
and go to the aviation print section. Look for Geschwader stab JG 301 Ta 152 and you will find the beautiful painting( I own this ), of the 4 a/c of the Geschwader stab. Jerry hand signed a copy for me back in 1992 as we were discussing the unit at some length when he travelled briefly here to Oregon. The painting will give you a nice 3/4 view and just a bit of history on the subject matter.
if you need more help let me know, but a beautiful a/c it is and powerful !

E and glad to help !

 

I think the best fighter was the P-51 Mustang. It was very versitale, had excellent range, and lethal firepower.

 

Yes, I know. But it stills being beautiful, doesn't it?

I know that in the Battle of Britain it suffered a lot of losses and that it lost its effectiveness when those fighters had to be scorted by other fighters... It is an ironny. But some 110 could go through and damage British aircraft on the ground with their 250 kg bombs and dive-bombig capability. But let me tell you that in hands of a good pilot it could shot down hurricanes, because it had two advantages over the Hurricane: a little bit more speed and heavier ammo, but of course, the Hurricane was much more monouvrable. Actually, Oberst Gordon McGollob shot down a Spitfire in 1939-1940 flying a Me-110!!! When he was flying with ZG-71.

And in the Eastern front the aeroplane simply smashed all Soviet aeroplanes it faced and destroyed everything on the ground. Beside as a night fighter it was bloody excellent! You could ask Wolfang Schnauffer... It was a recoinossence, trainer, everything. That aeroplane was good because of its versatility!

 

As I posted before, P-51D was the best fighter of all WWII for me.

Wilkommen, Oddball! I hope to see you around oftenly!

 

oddball, I agree, the P-51 ruled the skies over the Recih from mid 44 onward.

Greenjacket is correct about the Bf 110; it was slaughtered early on and even as an effective day time bomber destroyer with the Br 21cm rockets it was underpowered and could not be self defending in the heat of an airbattle. An effective night fighter it was but the cockpit was cramped with two to three crewmen. My cousin Heinz Baer thought the earlier Do 217 was superior to the Bf 110G-4 at night due to the fact that the crew was not all sitting almost on top of one another. The dornier was awfully slow......and he noted that they had an awful time catching up to the Halifax and the Lancaster bombers, while serving in NJG 3. The Bf 110G-4 could be a death trap though too as he was killed after an engine failure and was too low to bail out.....RIP cousin ! Still, I like the looks of the 110 and the center fire of the fuselage.

E

 

Thanks for the welcome, all. This place looks like somewhere where I could spend a lot of time...

 

Thanks for the site, Erich. You, always giving me fine stuuf! Vielen Dank!

You mean that P-47 was not the fastest piston-engined of the war? Then WE did the fastest?! Oh... you don't know how happy you have made me!

Yes, P-51s conquested der Reichs Himmel!!

And I do not care! I love 110 and it will always be my favourite!!!! I sound like a Kindergarted kid, but...

 

As far as German planes, I'm a bit partial to the JU-87. Seeing pictures of those really drove home the might of the German war machine. Whenever I think about the blitzkreig, I see a picture of a Stuka in a dive. It must have been like riding a rollercoaster flying one of those!

 

Friedrich, as the JG 301 pilots have said on many occasion, too little too late....Ta 152. Allied air-power dominated the skies, and the end result we all know. What antiquated machines, the Bf 109 and Fw 190's could not take on the overwhelming air might of the combined RAF and US fighter forces. Try as the Luftwaffe did, it was eliminated from the air, time after time.
Getting back to the P-47, no-one that flew against it could out dive it. Not with that big boy engine......
check out the eagle editions web-site and tell me what you think. some wonderful imagery !

E

 

Individual pilot victories do not prove an aircraft's ability. There were incidents of German fighters being shot down by practically unarmed British Lysander army co-operation aircraft. Are we therefore to assume the Lysander was a potent fighter?

Come on, the Russian Air Force were hardly a mighty power. Obsolete aircraft manned by undertrained pilots attacked with surprise on the ground by modern, battle-tested aircraft manned by hugely experienced crews? Doesn't prove much.

There were far more versatile aircraft than the Me 110. The Junkers Ju-88 and de Havilland Mosquito are just two examples.

 

Message for Erich Brown
MOSQUITO RESEARCH

Glad I revived this thread - it's got quite lively !

Erich, try the following as starting points for Mosquito research : -

RAF Museum www.rafmuseum.org.uk

Mosquito Museum www.hertsmuseums.org.uk

Yorkshire Air Museum http://yorksairmuseum.co.uk

There are literally dozens of books published here about this aircraft. A really superb, first-hand account I'd recommend is :

'Terror In The Starboard Seat - 41 Trips Aboard A Mosquito - A True Story Of 418 Squadron '
By Dave McIntosh ( Stoddart Publishing, Toronto, Canada 1998 ) describes intruder operations by day and night.

Hope all this helps . . . !

 

Friedrich, mein freund !
Something tells me that you have something of a 'soft spot' (as we say in England) for the Me110.

There is a truly superb book available here :
'Zerstorer - The Messerschmitt 110 and its Units in 1940' by John J Vasco and Peter D Cornwell.

If you don't already have it, it is highly recommended. It is large format, very, very detailed, full of data and photos, even details every 110 loss in the Battle of Britain. A 'serious' book . Although it is privately published , the good news is that is available at a VERY cheap price ( while stocks last ) at :

www.naval-military-press.co.uk

 

Thank you, Martin!

You discovered my wekness, he he !!!

I just love the plane!!!

I will look for that book, thanks!!!

 

First, Martin thank you for the added links, I will check them out.....

Friedrich in addition to Martin's book suggestion please look for the photo album : Bf 110 Zerstörer an allen Fronten 1939-1945 through Motorbuch Verlag, Holger Nauroth and Werner Held.
Also, D (Luft) T. 2110 G-2 Teil 8 A
Bf 110G-2 Flugzeug Handbuch Schußwaffenlage, April 1943.....this I believe can be secured through Udo Hafner a/c copies, web-site is ? but he has many fine copied handbooks of German a/c and their working systems.

viele Glück !

E