Best French fighter of the war?

But, flight testing of the VG-33 was never carried out because of the German invasion. You might just as well choose the VG-39 as this had a more powerful engine ( 1200hp ) than the VG-33.

 

Actually skua, as ive already mentioned in my previous posts, the VG-33 went well beyond the prototype stage.

The plane first took to the air in the spring of 1939 (before the war).
A complete official testings were conducted in August of the same year and the VG-33 was accepted for production.

160 aircraft were built by June, 1940, but only 12 aircraft were deployed outside their factories. Among these 12 aircraft, a few flew a very limited number of combat missions. However, i do not know wether these aircraft actually meet with any opponents. I think that would be very unlikely as no mention of this type of encounter is written about.

 

Sorry, you were right.

The VG-33 was indeed in production. But only 19 had been completed ( by Chantiers Aéro-Maritimes de la Seine ) by the time France collapsed, according to my sources.

 

Which was the Caudron fighter exported to Finland? I seem to recall some were returned as unsatisfactory (No, I'm not confusing these with the LaGG-Moranes, but if anyone has performance figures for these I'd be interested!)

 

Hey simonr1978,

I am not aware that a Caudron fighter was exported to Finland. If u mean the Caudron C.714 of wich equipped only a squadron of polsih pilots in France, I can give you its performance figures. I can also provide you with any performance figures you desire for the other fighters you spoke about if you can please only narrow it down to what type you want me to adress.


Do you mean the Morane-Saulnier M.S.406??

Thank you

 

The French goverment donated eighty C 714s to Finland, but only six reached their destination. They were assigned to LLv30, but apparently didn´t see any operational service.

 

LaGG-Moranes, I believe you are referring those MS-406's and MS-410's fitted with Klimov M-105 engine?

I've got an article (published in Ilmailu 2/1991). According to it MS-406 fitted with M-105 managed to make 435-445km/h at sealevel and 490-510km/h at 4000 meters.
Climb rate: Test flights gave 13 m/s as best climb rate and it took 8 minutes to climb up to 5000 meters. Writer predicts that if these test flights were to be done in optimal way, best climb rate could have been around 16 m/s.

Same article says that typical unmodified MS-406 managed to around 370 km/h at sealevel and around 430 km/h at 5000 meters. Values vary greatly depending on airplane.

 

Every source I've ever read has basically said that the MS-406 was a real dog, and no match for an Me 109 under normal circumstances. In the hands of a really exceptional pilot, maybe it stood a chance, but otherwise...

 

Info on the Morane-Saulnier M.S.406:

Type: Fighter
Year: 1938
Engine: Hispano-Suiza 12 Y, 2-cylinder V, liquid-cooled, 850h.p.
Wingspan: 34ft 9in
Length: 26ft 9in
Height: 9ft 3in
Weight: 6,000lbs
Max.speed: 302 mph at 16,400 ft
ceiling: 30,840ft
Range: 497 miles
Armament: 1 20mm cannon, 2 machine guns
crew: 1


A total of 1,081 M.S.406s were built.
150 M.S.406s were shot down
100 M.S.406s destroyed on the ground
50 M.S.406s destroyed by their own crew to prevent capture
Remaining M.S.406s captured by germans, served in Vichy forces, or handed over to Finns by Germans.

Sometimes an M.S.406 acheived quite good results:
On June 8, 1940, a single M.S.406 shot down three BF.109s in only 15 seconds. Natually, the pilot in question was one of the best France had if not the best.

M.S.406s claimed a total of 191 enemy aircraft of all types shot down and acheived 89 probable hits.

 

I read earlier this year a book about Antti Tani, who was a finnish fighter ace during world war two. He originally flew MS-406's but wasn't very happy about them. He was credited shooting down two Pe-2 reconnaissance planes which have top speed over 100km/h higher than MS-406. 1943 he was transferred to a squadron which flew Bf-109G's. Althought Bf-109G wasn't as nimble as MS-406, Tani preferred Bf-109 because latter was much more powerful, faster and simply better aircraft. Tani got 7 victories with MS-406 and 14½ victories with Bf-109.

 

If someone wants to read translated interview of Antti Tani and Jouko Huotari (other finnish ace, Brewster and Bf), check this out:
http://www.virtualpilots.fi/en/hist/WW2History-TaniHuotariEnglish.html

 

Notmi, I will certainly read that when I have a spare opportunity, the info on the LaGG Moranes is certainly intersting!

Skua, yes, the C714s were the aircraft I was thinking of...

 

I thought this would be of interest.

Caudron C.714:

Type: Light Fighter
Year: 1939
Engine: Renault 12 RO-3, 12-cylinder V, air-cooled, 450h.p.
Wingspan: 29ft 5in
Length: 27ft 11in
Height: 9ft 5in
Weight: 3,858lbs.
Max. speed: 303mph at 13,120ft
Ceiling: 29,855ft
Range: 559miles
Armament: 4 machineguns
Crew: 1

The C.714 was delevired to the Finns, who returned them to France as Simonr noted. These planes then went on to equip a squadron of Polish Pilots who had fled to France. The most notable defect in the Caudron was its speed of ascent, which was not good. The polish pilots who flew in the Caudron eqquiped squadron were famous for their apparent inability to maintain radio silence.

 

I have read Mr. Huotari's book about his combat flying days. Very interesting reading, I can tell you.

 

Another figther used in limited numbers by the french airforce in 1940 was the dutch build Koolhoven FK 58:



It's also interesting that in 1938, the germans were about to sell 300-500 Daimler Benz 601 engines to France.
These were to equip the Dewoitine D520.
But the evolution of the international situation ended the deal.

The french then turned towards the Rolls Royce engine of the Spitfire, but that one was rejected because it was impossible to mount an axial gun on it.
There were even propositions to simply introduce the Spitfire in the french airforce, and several of them were tested in 1938, but the french airforce officials came to conclusion that the Spitfire was not superior to the Morane 406( ), and expected it to be inferior to the Dewoitine once this figther fully operational.

 

The Spitfire not superior to the Morane 406? Just how did they come to this startling conclusion? Have the Morane fly around the Spitfire while the latter was sitting on the ground? :roll:

 

The Armée de l'Air received only one Spitfire as far as I know, the 208th production Spitfire Mk.I, which was delivered on 18 July 1939. It was evaluated by French pilots, but I know nothing about how it was regarded by them. I can´t see why they would have turned down the Spitfire, however, as they had already ordered the Hawk 75.