BLOODY SUNDAY

Hmm……well I don’t see any ‘insults’ written, even if someone were to be hyper sensitive? However, what is, is. I’ve no wish to labour any point, but an expression comes to mind I first heard quoted by an American muso in the 60’s, (exactly who I can’t remember).

”Gee mister, I’m sorry I kicked your ass. But I ain’t sorry I’m an ass kicker!”

Yes sir, Stevin and urqh, part two coming up, and urqh, thank you for hitting nails on the head.

No.9

 

Before moving on to William of Orange, I was half expecting someone might raise Oliver Cromwell. As said, the massacre of the Scots and English took place while the English Civil War raged. When Charles I was beheaded in 1649, Oliver Cromwell went to Dublin (the Commonwealth’s second city), with 12’000 veteran troops and a considerable artillery train. Depending on who you read, there’s different spin on this. Some portray Cromwell as the instrument of vengeance, others as continuing the mainland war. Ireland was very much a part of the kingdom containing both Catholics and Royalists, including…….Henrietta Maria (French), wife of Charles I. Cromwell’s first action was to march 30 miles north to the fortified Royalist town of Drogheda. The town refused the surrender and was eventually stormed and sacked. Of the estimated 2500 killed, only some 600 were civilians, meaning the rest were Royalists/clergy? A popular schoolboy’s highlight is the fact that the Ironsides bashed in the commander’s head with his own wooden leg, allegedly believing the leg was a hiding place for gold coins?

Cromwell then split his force send a few thousand north while himself turning south for Wexford with the main force. There was a similar battle there except that a the castle defenders were betrayed by one of their own. Less were killed there. Cromwell moved on other castles and towns and mostly secured surrenders which were met with clemency, barring one battle at Clonmel which, though eventually won, cost him more casualties than all other battles together. As many a 1 in 10 of communities were sent to Barbados and Cromwell did quite a bit of relocation within Ireland. The Celts he pushed north over the river Shannon, seized huge tracts of southern land and put good ‘ole boy Ironsides in charge. The scheme flopped really as these men weren’t farmers and quickly sold off their farms. Eventually, after winter, sickness (among his ranks and his own), and the threat of a Scottish invasion of England, Cromwell left. The war carried on in his absence and in all lasted 12 years in which some 600’000 Irish are said to have died.

Right – Oranges and lemons. Charles II, son of Charles I, had been hanging out in France and Holland since his fathers execution. In 1650 he went to Scotland and was proclaimed the new King. In 1651 he made an awful attempt to seize power with an army of 10’000, soon defeated. Cromwell went on to ‘lose it’, ending up making himself ‘King’ in all but name, and running up huge debts in wars with Holland, Spain, etc. About all England got out if was Jamaica, (thanks Ollie ). He died in 1658 and his nominee successor and son Richard was soon dumped and replaced by a good ‘ole King again in 1660. Enter Charles II, again and back from hanging out in Europe, again. Parliament remained of course, the Cavaliers evolved into the Tories and the Roundheads into the Whigs! The so called era of ‘Merry England’ was not too merry for Chas 2 really. Great Plague of London 1665, the Great Fire of London 1667 and war with Holland going badly (the Dutch sailed up the Medway, sunk five battleships and towed the Royal Charles back to Holland). He made a deal with the French to help bash the Dutch in return for promising to re-introduce Catholicism to the realm as the official religion – which never happened.

1685, Chas 2 dies and his brother James II, a staunch Catholic convert, takes the throne. Chas 2 only had bastards and the eldest, another James and a Protestant, made a bid for the throne and was killed. In the aftermath, James II commission the sadistic Judge Jeffries to preside over the "Bloody Assizes" and persecute Protestants who, of course, obviously were insurrectionist traitors. Jimmy 2 now set about repealing Protestant doctrine and replacing Protestant good ‘ole’ boys with Catholic good ‘ole boys. Too many changes too fast hitting too many powerful pockets. This was however, good news for Ireland unless you were a Protestant.

Parliament was still fundamentally Protestant and remained uneasy with Jimmy 2 to say the least. It was expected Mary, his Protestant daughter, would take the throne after his death, and get things back on line. By 1688, Jimmy (who by all accounts was an arrogant sod), established an alliance with Catholic France, arrested Archbishop Sancroft and six other bishops for failing to accept his pro Catholic edicts, and, aged 55, sired a male heir, hence blowing any prospects for Mary succeeding him!

Mary was now 26 and married to Dutchman, William of Orange. Parliament decided enough was enough and Whigs and Tories invited William (though his marriage to Mary) to take the British throne with her. William said. ‘Yo ma’ man’, clicks his clogs, and reached England on his second attempt with a small army. Equally, a small army turn out for Jimmy, then decide, ‘sod this for a game of soldiers’ and cleared off. Jimmy also did a runner and, graciously, William let him go to Catholic France. Jimmy’s exit was officially deemed an ‘abdication’ and in 1689, William and Mary became joint rulers of Britain and the Protestant good ‘ole boys were back in business.

Now, this was not the last of Jimmy 2. Despite the fact he was about and popular and welcome in England as a turd in a swimming pool, egged on by his French hosts he decided to make a comeback. To give him his due, while he may a been a bit of a pratt, he was credited as a good soldier. So, even with Louis XIV’s French support (limited till they saw how the war went – e haw, e haw), the only place he knew he could call on bulk Catholic support was Ireland, (also some support and small conflicts in Scotland though).

Going back to Cromwell, quite a few of those he drove across the river Shannon turned to brigandry. Initially they acted as guerrillas harassing Cromwell's forces. When the military aspect ended, they largely continued their lifestyle as bandits, or ‘Rapparees’. There is now a great quirk of mentality which demands consideration. Let’s take the premise of ‘Ireland for the Irish’ and ‘British out’. James II, when in power, made things bad for the Irish Protestants, he even issued two or three thousand deaths warrants on prominent Protestants. However, he remained, to give him his full title, King of England, Scotland and Ireland. He was not Irish and had absolutely no notion of separating Ireland from the realm. He was pro Catholic, but English and a Royal like all his predecessors. When he went to Ireland, did he promise or even hint at ‘home rule’? No, his only gambit was not ‘my fellow Irish’, which would have been nonsense, but ‘my loyal subjects, rally to your King’, which they did, wearing the white cockade and singing “Twas all for our rightful King." as they came???

We now have a clear polarisation in Ireland. On one side the supporters of James II (Catholic) and on the other those of William of Orange (Protestant). Persecutions under James II had driven most Protestants to Ulster in the north, those not already there anyway. When James was still in power, talk of William was enough to fire the hopes of Ulstermen. When news of the offer to William was known of, before he accepted, a group of apprentice boys took matters into their own hands by shutting the gates of Londonderry to stop the Earl of Antrim's Catholic troops entering the city. A siege started in April 1689, when Jacobite troops (troops of James’s forces) blockaded the city to try to starve the garrison into submission. After 105 days, following many deaths from starvation and disease, the merchant ship Mountjoy broke the boom across the river Foyle to bring supplies to the city. The garrison at Enniskillen also refused to surrender to the Jacobites, and won a notable victory at Newtownbutler. (If you didn’t already, now you know why the Apprentice Boys march is held every year.)

'In March 1689, James II left France for Ireland in an attempt to regain his throne. His armies soon won most of the country, but a prolonged resistance was put up by the people of Derry, who were eventually relieved by an English fleet in July 1689, a day still celebrated with much pomp and pageantry in Northern Ireland. In August, mainly as a consequence of the resistance of Derry, William's army, mostly Danish and Dutch mercenaries, occupied Belfast.

In August 1689 Marshal Schomberg landed at Bangor with 20,000 troops and, with Ulster secure, pushed south as far as Dundalk. James's army blocked further progress towards Dublin (where James was), but there was no battle and the two armies withdrew to winter quarters. In March 1690 the Jacobite army was strengthened by 7,000 French regulars, but Louis demanded over 5,000 Irish troops in return. The Williamites were reinforced by Danish mercenaries and by English and Dutch regiments. When William himself landed at Carrickfergus on 14 June, he was able to muster an army of 36,000 men. He began the march towards Dublin. There was some resistance near Newry, but the Jacobites soon withdrew to the south bank of the River Boyne.



The battle was fought on 1 July 1690 at a fordable river bend four miles west of Drogheda. The main body of Williamite infantry was concentrated on fording the river at the village of Oldbridge, which was approached by a deep and sheltering glen. First, however, a detachment of cavalry and infantry made a flanking attack upstream, which forced James to divert troops to prevent his retreat being cut off. William's army was stronger by at least 10,000 men, but after these troops were drawn off he had three-to-one superiority in the main arena. By mid-afternoon the Jacobite army was in retreat, outpaced by James himself, who rode to Dublin to warn the city of William's approach. He was in France before the month was out. On 6 July William entered Dublin, where he gave thanks for victory in Christ Church Cathedral.

The Battle of the Boyne is recalled each July in the celebrations of the Orange Order, not on the first day but on "the Twelfth", for eleven days were lost with the change from the Julian to the Gregorian calendar in 1752. It was not the end of the Williamite campaign, and the King had returned to England before the Dutch general Ginkel's victory at Aughrim and the formal Irish surrender after the siege of Limerick in 1691. The Treaty of Limerick was not ungenerous to the defeated Catholics, but they were soon to suffer from penal laws designed to reinforce Protestant ascendancy throughout Irish life.'

No.9

[ 05. June 2003, 05:58 PM: Message edited by: No.9 ]

 

Old King Billy...dont tell me mum...I broke the 11th commandment....thou shall not drink in Orange Lodge clubs....Well the beer was cheep...

On January 30th 1972, the result of action by the 1st Battalion the Parachute Regiment came to be known as Bloody Sunday

The marchers assembled in the Bishops field Creggan from about 2pm onwards. By 2.47 pm, when the crowd had grown to approximately 800 they set off on a circuitous route through South Creggan Brandywell, south and north Bogside until they joined their publicised route at the junction of Eastway and Lone Moor Road. The crowd then turned down William Street arriving at the security forces blocking point at 336pm, During the march the crowd had gradually built up to some 3000. Throughout, the march was well marshalled and efforts were made by the appointed stewards to keep the crowd orderly.

On the arrival of the head of the column at the barricade a brief discussion was held between the march leaders and the RUC. Meanwhile hooligans infiltrated to the front of the crowd and at 338pm the first stones were thrown at the troops and by 355pm the number of stone throwing hooligans had riseen to 50.
At 344pm a water cannon filled with a purple dye was used to disperse the crowd and at the same moment rioters threw stolen CS canisters at the troops. The NICRA marchers then moved off down Rossville street but the hooligan element who now numbered 150 soon returned to stone the road block. It now became clear that the NICRA marchers were assembling around a lorry which acted as a platform for speakers at Foxes Corner...otherwise Free Derry Corner...300 metres down Rossville Street. Thus there were now two seperate groups..the militant hooligans in William Street..and the relatively peaceful crowd at Foxes Corner, but before any action was taken against the former, the Brigade Commander waited until his helicopter OP reported that the two elements were fully seperated.

The 1 Para Action consisted of: During afternoon the CO 1 Para and his company and platoon commanders had carried out reconnaissancee of the containment line, the road blocks through which they might have to deploy and the William Street and surrounding area in which arrests would have to be made. The CO's plan was to pass his three available companies through the blocks...C company up William Street through block 14, A Company to the north west through block 11 and support company between these two through block 12. Support company anticipated difficulty in passing a large force quickly through block 12 and the CO authorised the machine gun platoon to infiltrate forward in advance of any actual arrest operation to occupy a derelict house on the northern side of William Street some 70 metres from the Presbyterian church. This platoon was stoned as they made their way forward and then at 355pm a shot was fired from the Rossville Flats direction which struck the drainpipe on the wall of the church. Almost as soon as they had occupied the derilict house two soldiers in the MG platoon saw a man in William Street diagonally across the road from where they were lighting a nail bomb. Both soldiers fired five rounds and the man fell. This shooting occurred very close to Kells Walk, and it was there that a journalist had seen what he thought were fields of fire being cleared for an IRA sniper. This would certainly have been in tune with normal IRA tatics up to this day in the area, to cover the William Steet and Rossville Street juncion, in order to murder a soldier during any arrest operation which were frequently confined to that junction.

CO1 Para judged the moment right to launch the arrest operation and he spoke on the radio to Bridgade hq. However there was a ten minute delay before the order to go ahead was given, due to scrupulous regard for the need to ensure seperation of hooligans from demonstrators, At 410pm C company went on foot through block 14, two minutes later support company in vehicles less the mg platoon were driving through block 12 A company moved to a flank protection positon further west, at the William Street Creggan Street junction. It was now a race to get support company round behind the hooligans as they were driven down William Street and Chamberlain Street by C company. The Mortar platoon led the arresting force into the open ground north of the Rossville flats. Their arrival is recorded on cine film taken from a helicopter overhead and their armoured one ton trucks...pigs...can be seen swinging left off Rossville Street. Across the open ground and trrning back to face the hooligans retreating before C company. It was as the men dismounted and began making arrests that the serious shooting began.
Company headquarters in two Pigs and one Ferret had driven further south halting just at the junction of Rossville Stereet with Pilot Row. As the crews debussed to arrest two rioters, a burst of about 15 rounds of what sounded like .45 inch Thompson submachine gun fire struck the ground 20 metres forward of them. This fire was not returned, but the vehicles were driven close up to the north end of Block1 of the Rossville Flats for better protection.
The remaining vehicles of support company halted along Rossville Street and the anti tank platoon followed by a composite platoon made up of men from hq coy referred to in the following tribunal as Guinness Force dismounted and deployed right, towards Kells Walk.

Shooting was continuing in the forecourt of Rossville Flats and almost simultaneously fire was opened from the barricade across Rossville Strret west of block 1. At least one nail bomb exploded in front of the barricade at this early stage. Another was thrown from the alleyway leading into Glenfada park and to protect his flank, three members of the anti tank platoon moved into the park. Three armed men were seen running and as they turned to face the soldiers they were engaged. Thus there were three fire fights taking place at the same time, along what seems to have been an improvised defense line intended to deny the army entrance to the heart of Bogside. It was during this engagement that most of the casualties were inflicted aand these formed the subject of Lord Widgerys inquiry. All this shooting was brought about by the unwise attempts of ameteur gunmen and bombers to stand off a company of troops who were deployed in the area with the sole purpose of arresting hooligans.

Support company by driving into the areas of the North east corner of Rossville flats ahead cut off the rioters escape westwards five arrests were made almost immediately. A further 20 arrestes were made in the Glenfada Park. The first arrests were taken to the RMP arrest team but, as there was a fire fight going on, the arrestees were moved to the shelter of 54 William Street, then to little James Street.

Hereafter they were backloaded to the collecting point at Fort George.

C company meanwhile had passed through barrier 14 and swung southwards along Chamberlain Street linking with support company at Eden Place.

Twenty two persons were arrested by C company and handed to the RMP arrest team who, being
unarmed had now withdrawn to the safety of William Chamberlain Street. The arrestees were then also backloaded to Fort George.

At 455 pm 1 Para ceased to fire, despite several more high velocity rounds fired at support company from undidentified positons. At 525pm the commanding officer ordered a phased withdrawal from the area to the companies origianal forming up positons. All companies were clear of the Bogside by 537pm.

The deaths caused indignation throughout Ireland and attracted world press coverage and it was against this background that the Widgery tribunal was later held.

On Febraray 23rd a bomb exploded at the officers mess of the parchute regt at Aldershot on the mainland killing seven people

July 21st of this year saw what was to become known as Bloody Friday, it amazes me that no one actually looks to this date to see another side of the story. This day showed the IRA for what they were and it did not include the protection of its own.

We are all aware of Warren point and the murder of Luis Mountbatten which the terrorists lauded as revenge for Bloody Sunday.

Whats missed out is the wholesale bombing of high streets, and physical destruction of WHOLE villages
by the IRA in the years that followed.

As for British soldiers firing on unarmed civilians, we should also remember the two Royal signals cpls who drove into the rear of a funeral cortege, immediately being blocked in by taxis, and the crowd smashing their car...pulling them out. One cpl removing his browning pistol, knew already their fate, but instead of firing into the crowd of animals that were about to hand out mob justice he chose to fire into the air, the rest is history recorded by the world press, and army helo cameras as they were both dragged out kicked and punched and torn to pieces by the crowd..dragged off to to an open piece of ground stripped of what remained of their clothing further beaten on camera, with the crowd baying for blood, and both beaten mercilessly and then executed.

Or the shooting of Cpl Mick Islhania Royal Air Force, sitting in his car in Germany with his six month old child, both executed by gunman walking up to car and emptying his weapon into father and child mercilessly.

The bombing of RAF Rheindhalen Naafi supermarket , PX, aimed at families of serving personel, and injuring many USA attached families.

The blowing up of bandsmen on a sunny London afternoon whilst entertaining tourists many of them American, the massacare of the household calvalry on the same day, and the near massacre of Falkland wounded and injured on same day at Raf Hospital Chessington when phoning in a bomb scare, the walking wounded were evacuated to an emergency point where later a uxb was found in the exact spot they were standing. Yes 9 aid to the enemy comes to mind once again.

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/2132219.stm

Bloody Friday.

 

I just popped in to thank everyone for contributing to this thread, i've learned a lot.