Browning M1919 vs MG42

Fair enough. However, this topic seems to be about a weapon used against but not necessarily by infantry.

 

Questions!

How many 50cal. were issued to infantry units comapared to how many 30cal? More, equal, or less. I think less. Do yopu think the same, Roel? Why do you think is that?

 

Much less, the standard US infantry MG was the .30cal. That is simply because the .50cal is too heavy for infantry to carry around. On the other hand, since US Infantry divisions of WW2 were fully motorized, they could afford to have special companies of heavy MGs in their ranks.

Did I ever claim the .50cal was a practical lightweight assault MG for infantry on a squad level?

 

Well than how the hell can we compare 2 things that are ment for 2 different roles? Is clear that as an infantry suport weapon, the MG42 is superior to the Browning M1919 in it's 50cal variant. It can be deploied imediately, had a high chance to hit someone, and it was cheap and easy to manufacture. But it had no armour piercing abilities.

 

the M1919 and the Browning .50 are to different weapons, the M1919 was a.30 weapon that in its A6 variant was mounted on a bipod with a shoulder stock and in its A4 variant was mounted on a tripod. the Browning M2HB .5 was designed to be used in tanks ect......

 

Just a quick internet search with keywords Browning M1919 yelded more 50cal pictures then 30cal pictures. Sorry for the confusion, but it seamed that both 30cal and 50cal were named Browning M1919.

 

Actually, this discussion was never meant to be about the .50cal against the MG42, because indeed these weapons are of different classes altogether. Hence why the topic title mentions the M1919. I just got a little carried away because I like the .50cal so much.

 

The M1919 was .30 only: the .50 cal MG did not emerge until the 1920s, and saw little use until the M2 version was adopted in the 1930s.

Tony Williams: Military gun and ammunition website and discussion forum

 

Only because I dont wish to mention something dosent mean I'am oblivious to it.

Mg-42 aka Hitlers Buzzsaw was has also played a phsycological warfare on the allied troops, it had a very distinct sound, which would often scare troops, not to mention hit the ground.

I beleive it was like 14rounds for 1 slite pull of the trigger (have to get a good source)

Barrel wear, yes it occurs but, the time to replace a barrel of an MG42 is quite quick.

The barrel was lighter than the MG34's and wore out more quickly, but could be replaced in seconds by an experienced gunner.

[Trying to put some interest back into this topic]

 

Even if the time it takes to replace a barrel is short, I reckon you'd rather not have to do it at all.

The MG42 did have an apprently distinct sound (I never heard one fire in real life so I can't tell), but so did the .50cal; the capability of the latter weapon to penetrate most conventional forms of cover would make it a more frightening thing to hear on a battlefield, I would say.

 

I thouhgt that the troops carried 30cal and the 50cal was left for the vehicles, as I recall the Sherman had 1 50cal and 2 30 cal mgs as secondary weapons.

 

this was usualy the case due to the M2HB's weight but i have heard of it being used on a bipod to support infantry assualts.

 

As far as I know, company level Heavy Weapons sections in American infantry divisions were equipped with .50cal MGs on tripods. These were obviously not as mobile as the M1919 but they definitely served in direct support of infantry, not just on vehicles.

 

Also wouldnt that mean that the number of 50cal being used by infantry to be significantly lower than that of the 30cal, as wz.38 machinegun was pretty much only used by SS units.

 

A 1944 US Infantry Division had 236 .50 cal HMG, but only 35 per infantry regiment and only 6 at battlion level, and only one in an infantry company.
The .50cal was intended to primarily be an anti-aircraft weapon.

There were 157 .30 cal MGs per division, 90 "light" and 67 "heavy". Each regiment had 42, 18 light and 24 heavy. Each battlion had 14, six light and eight heavy. Each infantry company had two light .30cal MG (and nine .30 cal BARs).

The typical German infantry division had 616 light MG42 and 102 heavy.
Each infantry regiment had 107 light and 24 heavy. Each infantry battlion had 43 light and 12 heavy. Each infantry company had 13 light and two heavy (and 28 SMG). Wonder why the Germans were "better" soldiers? More firepower is a starting point.

 

Experience would be another, ie. a veteran will ussualy perform better under combat conditions than a freshmeat.

 

That is a whole different subject you're touching on there...

Canambridge: it's a good thing that you also mention the amount of BAR rifles in infantry companies. Squad level MG support in the American army was the duty of these BAR rifles, whereas the Germans used light-type MG42s. This is the cause of the great difference in the amounts of MGs in American and German divisions.

 

Good point. At the outbrake of war most soldiers carried the K98k, a squad elader would carry and Mp38/40, and a squad would relly on an MG-34 for suppresive fire. The Americans carried more weapons of rapid fire, therefore the need for a machinegun with a largely high rate of fire is deminished. The BAR was the equivelant of the MG-34 in its role.

 

Yes, the "R" (for rifle) part of BAR often results it in being overlooked as a machine gun, or at least an automatic weapon.
Still the German infantry division had 718 light & heavy MG42 (mainly in in seven infantry battalions), while a US infatry division had 400 BARs + light & heavy .30cal MGs (mainly in nine infantry battalions). The Germans had learned that concentrated fire power kills (and rules) in WWI and they consistently applied that rule in WWII.
The BAR compares not unfavorably to the MG42, mainly in being lighter (8.33 kg empty against 11.6). Of course it lacked the range (550m against 1000m) of the MG42 and ROF (550 rpm against 1200) and the MG42 belt feed (with 50 rounds) was better than the 20 round box of the BAR, which took 5 -10 seconds to reload in combat. The BAR was not suited for sustained fire as the MG42 was.

 

Wait I thought the boxes of ammo for MG42 carried 200 or 250 rounds compared to 50 in the drum.

Some good WWII weapon videos are here, http://198.144.2.125/MG42/Machinengeweh ... Videos.htm

EDITED:
Just a warnbing buffering times are herrendes, it gonna take like 30minutes. But it is well worth it at the end of the mg42 video a guy goes Rambo
And I had no idea that they oushed a button on the end of the tripod to shoot, wow wer should learn everything thru videos, so much easier to learn.