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Classic military blunders...

Discussion in 'WWII General' started by DarkLord, Mar 19, 2021.

  1. DarkLord

    DarkLord Member

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    The classic line...
    You fool! You fell victim to one of the classic blunders! The most famous is to never get involved in a land war in Asia - Vizzini

    There are places you just don't want to fight. Fighting Russia in Russia; really bad idea. Fighting China in China; equally bad idea. The blunders made by the Axis in WWII. Both Germany and Japan were just ground to bits with their "land wars in Asia".

    I've been reading up on China, and it made me recall the Ukraine incident a few years ago. Immediately there were those calling for the US to intervene militarily...a lot of people. That would have the US fighting Russia IN RUSSIA. I'm so glad cooler heads prevailed...that was an unwinnable idea.

    With tensions rising over Taiwan, I'm convinced US policy edging us closer to fighting China over Taiwan; and there is no scenario where that goes well for the US (or China).

     
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  2. Kai-Petri

    Kai-Petri Kenraali

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    Politically China considers Taiwan is part of China, not a foreign country even if they had to conquer it. It also seems they are forcing more pro-Chinese laws in Hong Kong.
     
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  3. OpanaPointer

    OpanaPointer I Point at Opana Staff Member Patron   WW2|ORG Editor

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    I digitized three books from the 1800 that recorded the British enterprises in Afghanistan. They should be online at the Naval History and Heritage Command site.
     
  4. bronk7

    bronk7 Well-Known Member

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    ..the Brits lost once there, yes? ..and so did the Russians.....what were their objectives? ..I thought with the Russians they tried to install a puppet leader/etc.......?
     
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  5. Kai-Petri

    Kai-Petri Kenraali

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    The Afgan war background

    Soviet–Afghan War - Wikipedia

    The foundations of the conflict were laid by the Saur Revolution, a 1978 coup wherein Afghanistan's communist party took power, initiating a series of radical modernization and land reforms throughout the country. These reforms were deeply unpopular among the more traditional rural population and established power structures.[55] The repressive nature of the "Democratic Republic",[56] which vigorously suppressed opposition and executed thousands of political prisoners, led to the rise of anti-government armed groups; by April 1979, large parts of the country were in open rebellion.[57] The communist party itself experienced deep internal rivalries between the Khalqists and Parchamites; in September 1979, People's Democratic Party General Secretary Nur Mohammad Taraki was assassinated under orders of the second-in-command, Hafizullah Amin, which soured relations with the Soviet Union. With fears rising that Amin was planning to switch sides to the United States,[58] the Soviet government, under leader Leonid Brezhnev, decided to deploy the 40th Army across the border on December 24, 1979.[59] Arriving in the capital Kabul, they staged a coup (Operation Storm-333),[60] killing General Secretary Amin and installing Soviet loyalist Babrak Karmal from the rival faction Parcham.[57] The deployment had been variously called an "invasion" (by Western media and the rebels) or a legitimate supporting intervention (by the Soviet Union and the Afghan government)[61][62] on the basis of the Brezhnev Doctrine.
     
  6. LRusso216

    LRusso216 Graybeard Staff Member Patron  

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    I don't see that happening. It certainly would not benefit the US, but I don't think it's in China's interest either. Both sides will sabre-rattle and talk a good game, antagonize each other, but I think it stays at that. Both sides see the folly of a shooting war.
     
  7. Riter

    Riter Active Member

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    Yep, China, Russia and Afghanistan has been mentioned. I don't know why anyone would want to fight in Burma/Myanmar. Diesease alone will kill a non-indigenious person. New Guinea is another place I wouldn't invade. Japanese hung on there until the surrender.

    Many seem to forget that old Lacadaemonian law given by Lycurgus: Never fight a long war. Lycurgus feared the enemy would learn your tactics and adapt and become more formidable over time.
     
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  8. Kai-Petri

    Kai-Petri Kenraali

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    At least in Europe Chinese politics seem to be buy companies and land areas. No need for warfare just buy the damn countries.
     
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  9. Riter

    Riter Active Member

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    New warfare is economic warfare including monetary warfare. Germany almost "reconquista" Europa with the EU. Getting too modern now. Sorry Mods.
     
  10. Kai-Petri

    Kai-Petri Kenraali

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    Don't forget the net warfare. 'Eastern bloc' net workers are infiltrating sites and putting propaganda everywhere. As the sites mostly have a good reputation the messages and news they give are considered true. Today we know now what mostly happened. I am not saying this does not take place from the west but the Russian infiltration factories have been so openly identified that we know what they did, actually. Russians also openly threw accusations to the western politics and support governments that are pro-Putin. Which mostly are dictatorship led.
     
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  11. Sheldrake

    Sheldrake Member

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    Sorry but war is not commerce and these are misleading comparisons.

    War is destructive and destroys wealth. War is the pursuit of politics by other means. Sure economic warfare was part of the WW2 war effort. The British bought up strategic minerals and all the wool exports from spain and Turkey. The British blockade denied Germany access to world markets.

    Trade adds economic value creating wealth. Trade crosses borders and is independent of politics. Google, Amazon, Tesla and Facebook and very large US corporations - do they really serve the US national interests?

    The EU is not a reboot of the Third Reich but a political design to avoid the problems of the nation states model that led to the two world wars. It has been a bold experiment to give EU citizens the freedom to work, live and trade across national boundaries. The large German population and economic strength is a political reality, but by and large the EU is a peaceful and pleasant place to live.
     
  12. Riter

    Riter Active Member

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    Economic warfare causes poverty and impoverishes a nation w/out much bloodshed. Instead of invading, we (America specifically and recently China too) make loans and when the borrowing nation can't pay, we re-negotiate those loans. Give us your natural resources. Give us that power plant we built. Lending nation can also get political influence including "vote this way in the UriNation" or join us in the coalition against XYZ nation. Modern conquest is much cleaner but very insidious.

    I will agree that some corporations you identified do not serve the national interest. In fact, they attempt to sway political views through censorship or control of information. Amazon works against the small business as small brick 'n mortar stores cannot compete against them. As for Tesla, I still don't know how they stay in business b/c they simply don't produce that many cars. Shell for bigger players? Dunno.

    As to the EU, it is a de-powering of nations to conduct their own internal affairs. That is transferred to some unelected body of "representatives" or administrators or bureaucrats. How's that working out for you guys in the UK? Not to laugh at you, but are yuor fishermen fishing in the channel yet? We have a similiar thing here in America with these multi-county boards or commissions that are composed of unelected officials who are appointed and do not answer to the citizens they impose rules and fines over. Saw that first hand in San Franciscograd with the "Bay Area Air Quality Management Board."

    But I plea guilty to using Amazon as sometimes it's the only way I can get certain books. Years ago I got both volumes of the Memoirs of Baron Riedesel from Germany (he fought at Saratoga) and recently I'm getting the Revolutionary War papers of artist Charles Wilson Peale He did that famous painting of George Washington leaning against a cannon. Anyway, in that book Peale talks about a rifle he had made with a scope on it. It was the first scoped rifle in America and during the Revolution no less! I think Frederick the Great fired a scoped rifle but not being able to read German yet alone archaic German, wouldn't know where to look among his diaries or papers.

    Getting way off topic. Is there a free-for-all anything goes forum here we can take it to? I don't want a ticket on the ban(d) wagon.
     
  13. Kai-Petri

    Kai-Petri Kenraali

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    If you talk about Britain being in the EU it is not. They voted and resigned a while ago. The problem is that The British trade deals practically vanished with the EU countries. They have to make new deals but not big movement for a year and simply exchanging currency with the deals costs a lot. As I understood they have big hopes with making the missing deals with the USA. For example the Finnish deals with Britain went down some 56% after Brexit.
     
  14. LRusso216

    LRusso216 Graybeard Staff Member Patron  

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    Riter, spout to your heart's content here Free Fire Zone
    It's a fine place for good arguments.
     
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  15. Kai-Petri

    Kai-Petri Kenraali

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    Check Brexit from the net. Britain is not a member of the EU.
     
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  16. Takao

    Takao Ace

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    Simple...They sell their carbon credits. This has brought in twice what they made selling cars.
     
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  17. Riter

    Riter Active Member

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    Thanks K-P. We've been watching Brexit closely and applaud it here. Thanks Takao. I'm in the wrong bizness.
     
  18. OpanaPointer

    OpanaPointer I Point at Opana Staff Member Patron   WW2|ORG Editor

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    My entry for "Most common military blunder": Preparing for what you think the enemy will do.
     
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  19. DarkLord

    DarkLord Member

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    Don't forget, all the analysts said exactly that about Japan in 1941. Was rarely get started because rational people are making rational decisions. It often comes down to bruised national egos.
     
  20. DarkLord

    DarkLord Member

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    That's a really good one!
     
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