Cuba

Which is colonalism...

 

No argument in this case.

 

[China is not such a good example, SgtBob. The government there is so corrupt now, many wonder how much longer it can last.[/quote]

This is a good example of making a generalized statement without enough background knowledge. But I can't really blame you. Most people form an opinion of another nation via what they hear on TV or read in newspapers.

"Communits" China has been able to sustain >10% of annual economical growth since the late 1980's!! Which probably helped prevented the rest of the world from going into depression. Deng Xiapeng was no dummie, he experienced Mao's disastrous cultural revolution and realized he needed to inject some "capitalism" into his country. Individual entreprenouships were highly encouraged and many of the state run enterprises were privatized, this was unheard off in Marx or Mao's Redbooks. In Deng's own words: "let's signal right, but make a left turn".

Also, "Communist" China offers something which attracts foreign investments: political and social stability, and of course tremendous economic growth potential. Imagine if you have a product that you can sell to 1.3 billion people!! While the Soviets states are crumbling and are threatening nuclear exchange, and the Middle East is embroiled in constant conflict, billions of dollars are being poured into China annually. The sky lines of Guangzhou, Shenzin, Shanghai are no longer distinguishable from that of New York, Toronto, or Chicago.

While corruption exists in China, it can be found in every country. Incidentally, corruption committed by public officials are punishable by death if caught. Please don't forget that the Chinese have lived under emperors and "dictators" and foreign invaders for >4000 years, so please understant that it will probably take a little more time for them to appreciate the concepts of "freedom" and "democracy". Also, since one-quarter of the Earth's population resides in China, it is a bit more complicated than managing Cuba.

One final advise, it is very easy to form a "biased" opinion based on what you see on TV or read in the newspaper. If you want to see what the real China is like, take a trip there and it will not seem as "communist" or "evil" as you thought it was. Hey, at least you won't be kidnapped and then beheaded by terrorists.

 

This is a good example of making a generalized statement without enough background knowledge. But I can't really blame you. Most people form an opinion of another nation via what they hear on TV or read in newspapers.

"Communits" China has been able to sustain >10% of annual economical growth since the late 1980's!! Which probably helped prevented the rest of the world from going into depression. Deng Xiapeng was no dummie, he experienced Mao's disastrous cultural revolution and realized he needed to inject some "capitalism" into his country. Individual entreprenouships were highly encouraged and many of the state run enterprises were privatized, this was unheard off in Marx or Mao's Redbooks. In Deng's own words: "let's signal right, but make a left turn".

Also, "Communist" China offers something which attracts foreign investments: political and social stability, and of course tremendous economic growth potential. Imagine if you have a product that you can sell to 1.3 billion people!! While the Soviets states are crumbling and are threatening nuclear exchange, and the Middle East is embroiled in constant conflict, billions of dollars are being poured into China annually. The sky lines of Guangzhou, Shenzin, Shanghai are no longer distinguishable from that of New York, Toronto, or Chicago.

While corruption exists in China, it can be found in every country. Incidentally, corruption committed by public officials are punishable by death if caught. Please don't forget that the Chinese have lived under emperors and "dictators" and foreign invaders for >4000 years, so please understant that it will probably take a little more time for them to appreciate the concepts of "freedom" and "democracy". Also, since one-quarter of the Earth's population resides in China, it is a bit more complicated than managing Cuba.

One final advise, it is very easy to form a "biased" opinion based on what you see on TV or read in the newspaper. If you want to see what the real China is like, take a trip there and it will not seem as "communist" or "evil" as you thought it was. Hey, at least you won't be kidnapped and then beheaded by terrorists.[/quote]

The people of Hong Kong might not agree with you, liang, nor the dissidents who are currently doing hard time for their political beliefs. Nor, for that matter, those who survived Tianemen Square.

 

I am still angry over the Tianamen massacre, but I understood the end result was probably inevitable. It was a bloody lesson learned by the government and its people, I highly doubt it will happen again.

China was too big to allow any unrest go unchallenged. Just look at what happen to Soviet Union. I prefer a strong, centralized government that is stable and predictable over a dozen chaotic and belligerant republics each with nuclear weapons. You probably don't know but in the US, government troops have fired on vietname war protestors. Also, during the great depression of the 1920s and 1930s, there were many instances were massed assemblies were brutally suppressed by armed troops.

Can you tell me a country that doesn't have political "dissidents"?

As for Hong Kong, it hasn't changed much since 1997. Many of the people who left Hong Kong for North America actually returned to live or work there again. In fact, many of the foreign nationals chosed to stay behind (British, Indians..etc) As well as the British have ruled it for 100 years, no one wants to live under foreign rule. Do you??

 

The only instance during the entire Vietnam War protestors were fired upon was the "Kent State Massacre" where all of four students were killed when an inexperienced group of National Guardsmen opened fire on a crowd after thinking they were getting shot at. That was one protest among many. One Tianamen protest, one massacre of thousands.

The only instance I'm aware of during the Depression was the Bonus Army incident, where veterans marched on Washington to demand they receive bonus' promised after the war to be given in 1945. They decided they wanted it now and while they were there to build a shanty-town. They were ordered to remove the mess, refused, and fought police. The Army wasn't as nice and forced them all out of town, without a singe fatality. [/b]

 

Kent State. I've always wondered what idiot issued those Guardsmen live ammunition and then sent them into a situation for which they were not trained for at all. Definitely a tragedy, but hardly a massacre (except to liberals intent on milking as much out of it as they can).

 

Like the much publicised 'Boston Massacre'...

 

Well, a lot of our liberals do live in Boston! :lol:

 

Points taken, I was just as angry and upset as anyone about Tianamen square massacre. My points being is that at that stage of history, China was not ready for a radical reform. The country has just recovered from the cultural revolution and decades of isolation. The system and infilstructure was not (and probably still not) in place for an open and free and democratic country. Did you really expect the hard-lined party leaders to kowtow to the students and agree to open elections? There is a difference between practicality and utopia. Just look how long it took for the US and S. Africa to end racial segregation.

 

???????

Can't follow this.


Well you have a good point that the us did not started a serious war to keep the philipines in the right corner as happened in all the other colonial countries. I try to read something about it.

 

There is a difference between refusing to make radical reforms and brutal slaughter. It would be bad enough if they had arrested and beaten the protestors. Killing thousands just shows their lack of regard for human life.

 

I have to agree with SgtBob. The slaughter of the students was unjustified and inhuman. Had the students become violent and attacked the troops, I could have understood the soldiers returning fire. But not what happened in Tianamen Square. And they don't feel an ounce of remorse for it, either. When Bill Clinton visited China during his presidency, they staged a military parade right through Tianamen Square with him watching and apparently enjoying himself.

 

Clinton was probably enjoying himself because Lovinsky was busy.....well, you get the picture.

 

In Nanaimo, BC, Canada the striking coal miners were shot at and some killed by Canadian soldiers. The mining operations were so unsafe and conditions so poor the starving men refused to go in the mine. The business owner talked to the Provincial Legislature, then the demand for soldiers to be called in, to teach the men a lesson, was met by an order from Ottawa.

Just thought you might like to know. Even though I consider the American form of government to be inferior in so many ways to the rest of the western world here in Canada big business still holds too much infuence over our system as well.

http://www.sfu.ca/labour/StrikeOutline.htm

http://www.capeincowichan.bc.ca/labour_ ... _mairs.htm

 

Misery loves companies, it's nice to know that America is not the only democratic and free countries that opened fire on its own citizens.

 

March 1819 England.

Lieutenant Colonel L'Estrange reported to William Hulton at 1.50 p.m. When he asked Hulton what was happening he replied: "Good God, Sir, don't you see they are attacking the Yeomanry? Disperse them." L'Estrange now ordered Lieutenant Jolliffe and the 15th Hussars to rescue the Manchester & Salford Yeomanry. By 2.00 p.m. the soldiers had cleared most of the crowd from St. Peter's Field. In the process, eleven people were killed and about 400, including 100 women, were wounded.


Even the good British can have a silly half hour.


LOL

 

Ah, the 'Peterloo Massacre'
Some idiot assigned half-trained Yeomanry (militia) as front-line crowd-clearence during a 'protest rally'.
They had apparently spent some time in the pub beforehand, and forgot

a) no unprovoked attacks

b) they were supposed to hit demonstrators with the flat of their swords, not the edge!

 

Yes it is.

 

Hey, one good thing about the Cuban system of government - at least they can make sure that all their population is definately in shelters when hurricanes strike!