De Lisle Commando carbine

De Lisle worked for the Abwehr?!?! That's breaking news! My 9mm Vs 45acp is totally in reference to the De Lisle.

As for suppressor design criteria... just read any of the gov't bid solicitations. Durability is number one. BTW if you're not a civvie (do tell me about your service)... you'd know the military doesn't assassinate. A suppressor that eliminates all sound does not, nor will it ever, exist. The quieter (usually compact units with wipes) types you refer to for CIA ops have no practical value in combat. They are only good for a few rounds thus making them useless for a firefight. That's why the military wants a can that will withstand full-auto fire.

You are absolutely clueless if you think that a bullet hitting a person or a person dying is a quiet event. What suppressors/weapons have you personally used?

 

Maybe I'm a little confused or something, but the DeLisle and so on are for SOE units, not standard military. And they do assassinate, as well as conduct various sabotage operations where actual silencing, as opposed to mild aural suppression, was critical. For reference, the SOE even used crossbows in some operations.

 

Who'ever said the De Lisle was used by the Abwehr? The SDK was. The OSS used the De Lisle.

And that has what to do with the weapons which we were discussing?

THE military? You know that's a very bold statement, esp. since secret service organizations such as the Abwehr & OSS definitely did work with assassinations, and both were part of the military.

And now we're back at combat again.. who'ever mentioned combat anywhere? Once more the weapons in question are directly meant & designed for stealthy assassinations, not for combat. Both weapons are close to useless in combat.

*Ahem* WW2 *Ahem*

I'm wondering what you consider as silent, but I can tell you from first hand experience that a silenced MP-5 makes very little noise (esp. in military sense), and it even has a moving cycling mechanism which is about all the noise you're hearing. A bolt action operated subsonic silenced rifle makes close to no sound at all.

I remember an old OSS agent saying that the De Lisle was virtually inaudible beyond 10 yards, and that they used it to shoot enemy guard dogs with undetected.

 

A lot of modern "silencers" are employed on verious firearms to muffle sound to make it hard to locate. If you have ever been hunting, you know hitting a rabbit at 50 yards is very audible. That is with a .22. Shooting a person with a large caliber slug will in fact make a relatively loud smack. As a calibre of choice the .45 ACP is easier to silence than the 9mm. It starts as a subsonic round. The .45 ACP is also very accurate. We can argue here until the cows come home as to which would be the better round to silence, but history shows us De Lisle used the .45 ACP and it was a very effective weapon.
Just between the two rounds from a stealth stand point, the 9mm round would probably shoot through a target more often than the .45 round, maybe having a bullet stay in the target is a better thing for stealth purposes. Does anyone know if they used standard ball ammo, or a custom load?

 

No doubt, the NEW generation of "whisper" wildcat cartridges, are terrific. However, when discussing the Original DeLilse, IT was built to use STANDARD MILITARY BALL ammo. All rounds were sub-sonic, and easier to suppress. I have been austounded recently, while firing a friend's MODERN can, on a M1911. It was 1/3 the volume of a DeLilse can, and almost as quiet! I have ALWAYS maintained, the DeLilse was SO quiet, because of the internal VOLUME, NOT the design. The design is basically an enlarged Maxim, off-axis design, from Pre-WWI. The modern design, are centered, with VERY complex baffle shapes. They could NEVER have been made during the Battle of Britain, but they ARE good! (A C-N-C lathe, is required!)