Disgusting, absolutely disgusting

who are the UN? Some alien lizard people or aquanauts from Atlantis....

Again..WE ARE THE UN.

Some of us even inhabit the securit council as permanant members. Those amongst us have the power to do most things....If they are willing..Concensus by all means, but a little power talk in public wouldn't go amiss either.

WE ARE THE UN. Blame the UN, by all means, but your blaming yourselves.

 

Actchally they were a province of the Ottoman Empire since the end of the Crusades (can't say that word!), until after the end of WW1 it became a British Protectorate with the Turkish defeat.

 

Can't be helped, everyone makes mistakes, though admittedly two in a row is a bit much. Maybe we will get lucky again, and it will just quietly go away, like the League.

 

For that matter the term Palestine has been used since Roman terms in one form or another.

I know this is mighty controvercial, but I can't help wondering how Americans would react if someone decided to establish a new country in say Texas without asking them, probably the same as the Palestinians did in the 40's and do now.

 

Hamas fire rockets, its wrong...worse than wrong. The response is a little over the top though.

I wouldnt defend my own armed forces for shelling cities, or errantry firing mortars into buildings...errantry....what you doing firing mortars into towns anyway.

Dont do it. Hamas are wrong yes. You fall into their trap Well done.

Isreal and the Jewish folk as a whole is as divided on this as most of us are. And Isrealie folk dont deserve condemming as a whole.

Jewish folk in UK are horrified enought to write in protest, knowing full well that even though they support Isreal and its right to self defence, the response is inproportionate to the crime. They say this knowing they will be condemed as traitors by some, but some in Isreal are of the same mind.

Armies should not shell cities with self propelled guns all in a pretty line, they should not be mortaring towns errantly or otherwise, if my own army was to do this I'd be furious. As furious as I would be at the Hamas for starting this crap.

I wouldnt defend my own for doing this and I'm amazed at anyone defending it if they woulodn't allow their own to do it also.

Dropping leaflets to warn folk of impending doom and destruction is no good if those same folk have no where to go. Take a look at Gaza, the hill of the Phillistines, look at the fences and the built up areas, where do they go when you've dropped these leaflets? A neat absolution....perhaps there has been a conversion to catholicism.

 

And before anyone says I'm a week kneed leftie, I've faced the mobs and the bullets.

We though acted in an appropriate manner to the threat.

 

Just goes to show one thing that this thread has been screaming, but no one really has pointed it out. In the Western nations, to a certain extent, government can be seen as the people. In Israel and Palestine...the extent...is small. Government is not living up to their responsibilities. Promises are turned to ashes, and hopes are turned to sand. Without the articles, quotes, or anything else to back me up, I can almost guarantee, in Israel and the Palestinian population, the majority of the people want to live in peace. They could care less what the other party did, as long as they were left alone.

Fact: In some ways, the Israeli government is corrupt. Fact: Hamas likes violence. Something else to mull over: Not all Jews are the Israeli government, many are disappointed with the direction their nation seems to be taking. Not all Palestinians support Hamas, most now disagree strongly and regret ever "voting" Hamas in.

Even the soldiers and fighting men of both sides...thrown into battle by their superiors, who feed them both stories and hate of the other party (Party B), which is in turn generated by hate of Party A, whose hate is inspired by Party B, and so on and so forth. Ordered by their superiors to rocket and mortar peaceful towns, to invade and attack peaceful families.

Who's to blame? The same person who is to blame for the Pakistani-Indian conflict. The same person that threw capitalism at communism. Yes, it is someone we all know very well...

 

Errrr.... Dubya?

 

And heres me thinking it was you ZA....you been trying to get planning permission for resteraunts in both places?

 

Oh no, Hannable Lechter is on our forums and who's also posing as a Restauranteur. :lol: :lol:

 

Anyway, back to the topic. Mig/B, simply put-that terrorist organization started the fight w/ Isreal-and are getting a bloody nose for doing so. Now that the Isrealis are kicking some terrorist butts-the Isrealis are wrong for doig so? However, if the terrorists were the ones w/ the upper-hand-then they are doing right? The answer to both is--no.

Stefan, you HAVE already been overrun w/ ILLEGAL ALIENS. You should know that by now-and in which many European Countries are in the process of being overrun w/illegals of their own including some undesirables--meaning: troublemakers.

One of many great things about living here is, is that we Americans, have the right to protect our homes by using a wonderful invention called: Guns. Over here, the average Citizen does not have to solely rely on the Govt for protection.

 

Again: without the UN at Israel's northern borders, there would be two open fronts now, not one. The Un soldiers are cleaning mine fields everyday and risking their lives for a better world but that doesn't sell paper, so you never hear about them in the press. And the UN is feeding the civilians in Gaza despite the bombings . Should these people be starved? I don't think so.

 

What difference does it make who started the fight? No one can change what's already happened. What counts is what's happening today. And that is Hamas is firing rockets into Israeli civilian neighborhoods. What the Hell is the Israeli government supposed to do? Let them continue? Any government would be bound by law and ethics to try to stop them.

And because Hamas chooses to use it's own civilians for shields, that means the Israelis are going to be attacking Palestinian civilian neighborhoods. What's so difficult to understand about that? It's what the Palestinian leadership has chosen to do, so if anyone has a problem with it let them complain to Hamas.

As for the comment about Texas, If anyone knows the history of Texas, it's already happened. The Texans and Mexicans and indians fought like hell (God alone, knows why) to get a piece of the state. After many years the winners and losers realized everyone could live there in peace, so they declared a truce and decided to get along, at least without shelling each other. But not Hamas. Hamas needs the violence to keep political power and the Palestinains in Gaza are stupid enough to buy their propaganda.

It's interesting that even Egypt doesn't want to have anything to do with Hamas; Egypt has refused to open it's borders with Gaza, just like Isreal. Appears to me, the solution is to let Israel do what it has to do to destroy Hamas once and for all. If that means killing every last Hamas fighter, then so be it. Then Israel can turn Gaza over to Fatah and establish some kind of sane relationship like they have with the West Bank

 

Double dittos--exactly and very well-said.

 

That makes sense, but I'm not certain Fatah members will support this. If this war goes on too long , it might drive some moderate Palestinians to Hamas ideology, just wondering. I mean they probably have civilian family members in Gaza too

 

Fatah was the loser of a bloody civil war in Gaza, I don't think they'll shed many crocodile tears over the Demise of Hamas. As for civilian Fatah supporters in Gaza; well there probably are some. But Fatah is sensible enough to know that if Hamas keeps launching rockets and mortars against Israeli civilian neighborhoods, sooner or later Israel will have to retaliate. And Fatah also knows that Israel isn't deliberately making war on Palestinian civilians, regardless of what the European media says, so they will understand the best thing they can do is stay the hell away from the Hamas lunatics.

Fatah doesn't really have to "support" anything, just stay out of the way until Hamas get's itself exterminated. Then Fatah can start over again to hammer out some sort of viable deal with Israel like they have done on the West Bank. Almost all the Arab governments have come to the conclusion that Israel is going to stay where it is and the only logical thing to do is reach some sort of accommodation that everyone can live with. The only remaining hotheads are Hamas, some Lebanese factions, Syria, and Iran. If Hamas gets wiped out, and I hope it does, that will go a long way towrds convincing the rest.

 

The difficulty with the problems in the middle east is how despite our distance, and the wider perspective we might enjoy it soon develops into taking a side, and that's when any possible solution vanishes.

Shame really.

 

True, true....but at lest we're a peaceful lot....I aint about to invade Texas...Carls got a gun...

 

Nonsense!

That's like saying the outcome of WW II wasn't a good solution to the Nazi problem.

 

Almost EVERYBODY in Texas has a gun!