Eastern Front victory conditions

None CrazyD, I think...

The Russians just built more planes and trained more pilots than the Germans could shoot down...

 

there were probably more than 5000 aces if we count ground attack, dive bomber, night, day fighter pilots. bomber crews, recon, etc......

E

 

Probably a famous book in the 1960´s :

Alexander Kluge: Schlachtbeschreibung (1964 )

I think it can be called as Image of war or something like that. It tells about Stalingrand and has stories by soldiers etc.

I just thought how interesting on victory conditions this is:

In 1941 within six months several persons died or were sacked:

General Marshall von Rundstedt
General Marshall von Reichenau
General Marshall von Leeb
General Marshall von Bock ( or sick leave, wasn´t it first ?)
General Marshall von Witzleben
General Marshall von List
General Marshall von Brauchitsch

General Colonels Ritter von Schopert,Guderian, Hoepner, Strauss...

I can truly see Hitler did not think much of his generals...

 

Well, they screwed it, so it's a fair approach to fire them and give the chances to someone new. Just too bad (good) that Hitler did thought he would do it better.

Cheers,

 

Yes,Andy, they failed but all of them...??

 

Gentlemen: I have been reading all your posts about the logistics 'Barbarossa' and let me tell you that you all amazed me as always. I found rather interesting all your posts and facts. I've remember reading some writing by general Günther von Blumentritt in which he states that the advance had to stop to resupply the troops of ammunition. And as Andy, I think the production was not the problem, but the transportation of it. I have read in my grandfather's diaries that they had enough rifle ammunition (K98) as well as plenty of 9mm bullets for pistols and MPs. The MGs had also enough ammo. He says that they lacked of 37mm anti tank shells. But it was not a big problem because they were ineffective against Soviet tanks, any way or another... And I've read the chapter about the cold (even if he was at the Kursk sector by then) he says that they didn't have severe low temperatures on November. It was until the first days of December that the cold became unbearable, just at the time of the Russian counterattack, when the German advance was already halted.

And about the planes, I think Kai is right. The Soviets just built so many aircraft and had so many pilots available that they were impossible to shoot down, doesn't matter if you have 5.000 aces and even 82 aces with more than a hundred kills... The Red Air Force lost so many planes in the first days of the invasion but they had 9.000 in 1945...

Well, to clearify some things on that post:

Marshal Von Runstedt resigned to his post because he suggested a retreat from Rostov to a defensive line at the Mius river. Hitler refused and Von Runstedt said that he was not going to accept the responsability of such a foolish situation, so he resigned on November 30th 1941.(Ironnically, after Soviet counterattacks and thousands of casualties, Army Group South under marshals Von Reichenau and Von Bock withdrew to the very same defensive line at the Mius river that experienced Von Runstedt had suggested)

Marshal Von Reichenau died before he could do much on January 17th 1942 after he suffered a heart attack and a brain haemorrhague on the 12th.

Marshal Von Leeb asked to be withdrawn from service on February 13th 1942 after his forces were attacked and surrounded at Demijansk. It didn't matter that he had suggested a retreat to shorten the lines and prevent surroundings.

Marshal Von Bock had severe stomach aches and he asked to be relief from command by mid December 1941. A month later he took command of Army Group South.

Marshal von Witzleben was commander in chief of the West. Doesn't have anything to do with the Eastern Front. He was replaced by marshal Von Runstedt who kept this post until July 1944 and took over it again on September 1944.

Marshal List (not von) did not take part in 'Barbarossa'.

Marshal Von Brauchitsch suffered a heart attack by mid December and had to retire from active service.

 

Thanx for the corrections, Friedrich!

Gotta check now whether I understood wrong what Mr Kluge said in his book...

 

What was it? Could you tell me the name of the book? Von Kluge was a fine commander (always fighting with Guderian) and it would be interesting to know what he said.

 

Oops...sorry,

not von Kluge but

Alexander Kluge: Schlachtbeschreibung (1964 )

 

Hello all

Can somebody who is Russian said me about Vasilij Zdajcev? He is head acter from "Enemy at the gates"

 

Milos have a look at this page

http://www.russian-mosin-nagant.com/zaitsev.htm

I think that is the guy you refer to.

Allegedly 400 kils, 149 in the battle of Stalingrad

[ 09. June 2003, 12:15 PM: Message edited by: KmPok ]

 

[i)"In hitler's view, it [the Brauchitsch-"case", A.W.] was about a person who did not inform and react sufficently enough during states of crisis. (...) But neither at the level of the Chief of the Army Groups nor the Chief of Staff, not even mentioning other advisors, one can come to the conclusion that von Brauchitsch seemed somehow unreplacable to anybody."[/i]

(Ernst Klink: "Die Operationsführung" in. "Germany and the Second World War, Vol. 4: The Attack on the Soviet Union", p.679)

It is telling that von Bock wrote down the word "sick" WRT von Brauchitsch's dismissal in quotation marks in his diary. Bock was very worried that his own "vacation" is somehow the same as von Brauchitsch's sacking (see entry 1.1.1942)


"Everything possible must be done to back up the troops. Therefore it is necessary to establish a tough, male leadership at the very top of the command chain. The Fuehrer has therefore decided to order a number of personal changes in the leadership. General Fieldmarshall von Brauchitsch has to lay down theleadership of the Army."

Goebbels Diary 19 December 1941

What's the polite term we all know if one get's sacked? We decided in "common agreement to end the employment contract"

Cheers,


[ 10. June 2003, 02:13 PM: Message edited by: AndyW ]