Finally: Justice for Assange ...

I hardly think that I'm picking out small points from your messages. What I responded to was a key point in your argument; namely, your reason for Australia not assisting him. You could not have "pointed this out previously" as I haven't replied to any of your other messages. I agree with what you said in this message, but you implied that the AUS government sucks up to the US and hence would co-operate fully with the US if they wanted Assange extradited. This is hardly the case, as the aircraft carrier event demonstrates. Indeed, the very fact that the AUS government listens to China shoots this argument down. Australia is a sovereign country, and it hardly is the puppet state of another country.

Moving onto other topics: even if Assange was helped by Australia and (for example) allowed to return home, he would still eventually be extradited to Sweden. From the first article of the Australia-Sweden Extradition treaty: "Each Contracting Party undertakes to extradite to the other Contracting Party, subject to the provisions of this Treaty, any person found in its territory who is charged by a competent authority with, or has been convicted of, an offence against the law of the other Contracting Party, whether committed within or outside the territory of that Party."

In other words, if Australia assisted him somehow (for example, bringing him to the Australian Embassy for protective custody), they would be breaking the law by not extraditing him. There is nothing they can do, "strings" or no "strings". They are legally required to extradite him, as are most of the other countries in the world that have valid extradition treaties with Sweden. Ecuador does not, which is likely why he picked to go to them.

Australia can't intervene, Assange has shown them no respect, he is wanted by a (friendly) foreign government and is political dynamite. Why would they help?

 

Another interesting tidbit to throw out there:

Ecuador | Freedom House
The World Today - 'Climate of fear' for local journalists in Ecuador 17/08/2012

-"President Rafael Correa [of Ecuador] attacking private media are an alarming illustration of Correa’s growing attempts to silence critical media."
-'One member of the local press says he and his colleagues face a weekly torrent of accusations and abuse from the president himself during his addresses to the nation."
-"the government of Rafael Correa has become notorious for its mistreatment of local journalists."
-"President Correa every Saturday in his weekly addresses maintains an anti-journalist stance which has made many city dwellers think they have the right to attack journalists when this shouldn't be the case."

Its going to be interesting to see how Assange fits in over there, considering he is about as independent that a "journalist" (yes, that is in quotes on purpose) can get. He's hardly making a stand for free speech and internet freedom -- he is saving his own hide.

 

Julian Assange statement at Ecuadorean embassy - live

 

Please, do so.

I know we would disagree on this subject, so why bother. By the way, strangely, but it seems to me that you intend to start a cross-examination with me.

 

Having seen his "address" earlier, the guy really does have a Messiah complex.

 

I have clearly stated that if it involved 'both' the US and China they do not go and do as asked (or told). Now if you havn't read this before might I suggest reading the whole thread from the start? It's a problem I have had in the past and can very easily cause confusion and arguments and my personal opinion, If the thread doesn't even have 50 posts yet then reading them all is no big time waster or challenge.

Cheers.

 

I think I understand what you're trying to say. No offense intended, but this disproves your comment that the AUS government is 'cozy' and/or 'sucking up' to the US. If that were the case, they wouldn't care what China does. My original message still stands. I'm assuming that you're implying China has no objection to Assange being tried in the US, hence they wouldn't be annoying them in any way. What makes you think that China wants Assange punished? His organization has been a consistent thorn in the side of China's largest geopolitical enemy, and has made a mockery of it on the world stage (leaked embassy cables insulting foreign leaders, 'kill footage' of civillians, etc). If I were in China's position, I'd be egging him on, not hoping that he ends up in a prison cell (and yes, this would involve pressuring foreign powers to let him go free). Assange has not shown China much 'aggression' asides from 1 interview with TIME magazine -- they have no reason to dislike him (putting aside the fear that he would do something similar with Chinese government cables, which given the security in that country, is highly unlikely).

Now, as for your comment that "if you would read the entire post and not use lil tid bit's to try and change what I was saying."..... (hint hint: that message had more than 1 paragraph)

 

That's something I've agreed with for a long time. All I have to add to this:

"Assange has fallen out with his lawyers, collaborators, staff and some former supporters, who complain of his monstrous ego, chauvinism towards women and meagre gratitude to those who worked hard for WikiLeaks' success. Perhaps most damaging of all, Assange now looks like a hypocrite."

Cookies must be enabled. | The Australian

 

I was using the AUS government cozying up to China and the US as an example, If it has come across that way I have not intended to give any view of China's view of Assange and the US.

If it helps I'll try and lay out a little time line that lead to that remark of mine =).

Tamino said

then The Historian replied with

So I came out with..

So The Historian replied with

and to end it I came back with

Hopefully this clear's up the confusion mate.

Cheers, Matthew.

 

That doesn't sound like it's going to lead to justice to me.

Because there is significant evidence that he commited criminal acts.

Why? So you can use it to spew your personal opinion unopposed?

??? Actually much the opposite. For the most part the "Wiki Leaks" articles showed the US to be operating within the laws and operating on a relativly elevated moral plane. Indeed if there is any justice related to this event to date it is that Assange's attempt to damage the US has had the opposite effect.

Not from what I've seen. Care to list a just a few of them?

Which is a relativly minor part of the difference. Governement secrets may in some cases be things that should be revealed. On the otherhand some of them are things that could result in the deaths of thousands. Most fall somewhere in between.

Assange is anything but innocent. He got off easy on some of his previous criminal acts. Whether or not he is legally guilty of criminal acts in regards to "Wiki leaks" is an open question. Certainly he's guilty of recklass endangerment. Indeed he's justified it in rather cavalier statements about "colateral damage".

When I first saw the title of this thread I was thought it really did indicate a movement toward justice in this case. Instead it should more properly be Justice delayed for Assange.

 

Plutocracy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Democracy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Tres interesting...Voted.

 

After seeing this self-important twit on TV deliver his statement from the safety of the Ecuadoran embassy (FYI Assange, Ecuador is NOT a real bastion of freedom of the press btw) , it seems it would serve justice a lot better for the UK to seize the twit and send him to Sweden and then the US. The Assange can have a shot for real justice.

 

Fair enough. I still disagree, but there's no point to keep dragging this out.

 

Well at least we can be mature about this and agree to disagree =) So much more relaxing to not have to come back to drama after night out .. (went and seen Jeff Dunham in Melbourne.. HILARIOUS but not politically correct )

 

Just about every account I've read about him from his former co-workers calls him pompus and egotistical. That speaks volumes -- so you just might have a point there.

 

That and the fact that he committed sexual crimes then ran off to 'seek political asylum speaks" well of his character too. From some of the posts here you'd think he was just a fine fellow.

 

A few aspects of this case seem to have been lost in the rhetoric from all sides....

Assange is NOT wanted on a charge of rape; no charge has been made against him yet. In Swedish law it's customary to only charge a person with a crime a quite short time before any court case....

Nor is he actually wanted for questioning with regards to a case of "rape"; it's a specifically Swedish law regarding consent to practice "safe sex" I.E. having slept with him apparently consentually, two women complained that he hadn't worn a condom! It's an allegation equivalent to rape in the UK...Important wording that - see my next comment regarding the penalty for this crime...

Also - in Sweden, if found guilty of this crime....he would ONLY be liable to a financial penalty, not imprisonment!!! How on earth did they get a European Arrest Warrant approved for this???

In penalty terms - it's not dissimilar to a European Arrest Warrant being issued for the arrest and extradition of a serial parking ticket avoider!

All of which has helped raise eyebrows over what the hell ARE the Swedes doing demanding the extradition of this guy???

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The OTHER aspect is the foaming-at-the-mouth rhetoric that emerged from the great and the good across the Pond; things are a bit odd in the U.S. if elected representatives can call in public for Assange to be "assasinated" I.E. murdered! It doesn't really matter that some of them are generally regarded as feckwits - you just can't go around SAYING that sort of thing in public!

As for the calls for him to be tried for Treason - he's not an American citizen, for god's sake - HOW can he be a traitor, by definition???

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Back at the Swedish end of things - there are OTHER funnies that need some light thrown upon them....

Assange WAS arrested and questioned on these charges already in Sweden - and no further action taken....

THEN the Wikileaks fiasco exploded....and NOW suddenly the Swedes are desperate to get their hands on him again????

Something is rotten in the state of not-too-far-away-from-Denmark!

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Personally, I think he's an obnoxious tit; but the British government have made a major political mistake over the last week with their thinly-veiled threat to enter the Ecuadorian embassy and seize him....and subsequent backpedalling faster than a parish priest cycling down a one-in-three hill!