Finest and Most Influential Tanks of WWII

Turret rotation - Can someone please explain to me how a turret rotation system which uses a PTO from the engine will not fluctuate with engine RPM and thus be affected by and effect engine performance. If a tank engine is performing at a given RPM and is required to share energy for an engaged system (the rotation of the turret) it must divide the energy it is putting out between moving the tank and the turret, i.e., the turret will not be turning at the expected speed the gunner might want. Doesn't such a system mean turret rotation will suffer depending on the variable factors of the tanks movement?

 

Considering the amount of torque these engines were putting out it would've had a truly minimal and unoticable effect on engine power.

Furthermore turret traverse will not fluctuate as the rpm of the engine only decided the maximum traverse of the turret, the gunner still fully controlled the traverse speed. Also normally the gunner would simply leave the hydraulic system in the rpm independant gear, where the engine just needed to be running on idle and a change in rpm had no effect.

Also JBark, what is with the sudden hypocritical turn around? I've cited my sources over and over again, just like m kenny has cited his. You only make it clear that you could care less about what's actually true.

 

Problem is that these reports don't provide an accurate depiction of the system, the systems tested obviously not functioning as they should. Also only one of the reports talks about any delay IIRC, the others mention only either slack or stiffness in the foot pedal, not any delay.

But put simply, a proper functioning system wouldn't feature any delay what'so'ever, it was a closed system with the exact intend of avoiding any such issues, and neither would there be any noticable slack or stifness in the foot pedal controls. On top the British didn't know how to maintain, adjust or re-calibrate the system, they had no experience with it, no manual, nothing. Furhermore the system's hydraulic lines or motor could've been leaking fluids for all we know, and that would cause a delay. All we do know is that the system wasn't working as it should.

Also it needs to be noted that one of the tanks (Tiger 131) had taken a direct hit to the turret ring, the impact being powerful enough to knock the gun balance spring casings out of alignment and severely damaging one of them. This likely wouldn't have left the turret traverse system unaffected either.

Easy, lets start out with 3 obvious ones.

1. no room for gunners headphones
2. badly layed out controls
3. badly designed turret traverse system (I thought you said they only made small innocent comments?)

All of those are quite simply wrong. I've seen and touched these machines, talked to the people who operate them, and they have nothing but praise for the interior layout, the turret traverse system and its position, as-well as the position of the gunners controls. And this is backed up by those who operated the things in action over 60 years ago as-well.

In short the interior ergonomics of the Panther is great, just as good as in a Sherman, and even better according to some. Furthermore, as so thuroughly explained & demonstrated before my very eyes, the variable speed hydraulic turret traverse system is very precise, being used for final gun laying, and the pressure sensitive foot pedals are easy to use and provide excellent feel. This is straight from the mouth of those who operate the machines today, and back up by those who operated it 60+ years ago.

 

Please can you give me the exact quotes. The whole paragraphs where the above are mentioned rather than a precis.

 

I have scanned your posts for the last three "pages" of this thread and aside from occasional references to manuals you offer nothing that would allow me corroborate what you have said. When I questioned where your pictures came from you posted more pictures with no citations as proof that the earlier pictures were "authentic." Of course it turned out that the gunsight you were showing was not a Panther sight but "like" a Panther sight. Please prove me wrong.

 

I think I know the rules;

1.) German armor is superior
2.) Don't question Jentz
3.) Don't question Proeliator
4.) Don't believe Zaloga

 

Panther monocular with browpad

 

When and if I get the time I will or you can.

If that's what I claimed I might agree with you. However it's not. The manuals are usually pretty good at describing how things work. What is often off a bit are the performance characteristics.

Yep, you've said that several times. Since you said it was in full operation how many rounds did you see fired? and how fast were they able to shoot? People who do rebuilds on war time equipment are often quite enthusiastic about the particular piece of equipement they have worked on, very difficult not to be at least a bit biased in these cases isn't it?

The fact that you have posted schematics and described the function while nice is not the focus of thier disagreement it was the precision with which it could be operated. You have yet IMO to adequately address that and their argument again IMO looked to be stronger than yours.

 

Why throw stones from a glass house? Why not try to stop parroting other posters and post a source of your own for once? "those that doubt any printed word which says these machines are not perfect are not required to state sources for what they know" (Holy crap seriously JB, as if you ever....I mean ever use a source).
I don't despise Zaloga and I'm certainly no fan boy, I happen to find enough errors in his work and unsupported opinion in "Sherman vs. Panther" to have issue with its accuracy. Do YOU have a problem with that such that its necessary to post the crap that I quoted above? The problem here is actually that the tank you wish to push forward as the greatest of all isn't that great and its main competitor in most of these "best tank" debates you despise along with anyone who doesn't agree with you. But please...continue to beat the same old tired drum, I've grown used to the beat by now. I don't think everything German is the best invention ever, I don't say its garbage without looking at it objectively either.

"those that doubt any printed word which says these machines are not perfect are not required to state sources for what they know"
Seriously JB? wtf is wrong with you? Do you spend alot of time on political debate forums? Every debate you are in that doesn't agree with you ends up with you being as abrasive and accusatory as possible, the question remaining is why? Is there a point to it? Do you find that necessary to intellectual discourse?

 

I appreciate that you may not like my style and to that I would simply say move on. If it is that problematic for you then don't participate and don't respond. Move on, ignore me. I have seen discussions of this like for years on the various history sites and my manner does not stand out. I suggest you examine other responses as well and once more say if I disturb you that much ignore me.

 

Mike-

Is that really a browpad? From the looks of it I would think it would contact the head on two points about 3" apart. Am I seeing this correctly?

 

Its a style? Good for you. If you'd like to discuss Sherman vs. Panther then please go ahead and start a thread and we can dissect it in detail if you'd like. Mind you, I'll feel free to use the exact same methodology in questioning his work that you use in questioning others (authors, posters, etc.). By your own methodology "Sherman vs. Panther" likely doesn't stand much of a chance.

 

If I recall it is you that has attacked Zaloga's work, correct? It is you that refuses to specify your problems with his work, correct? If you are feeling the need to discuss Panther vs Sherman or any other Zaloga book, or a book by any other author, do so. Don't try to make it my responsibility to start a thread so you can air your issues.

 

Seriously? This, again?

 

Shouldn't that be "still"?

 

From this and other photos I believe your forehead sits with this pad wrapped around it and with your right eye lined up with the optic. It appears to be cocked to the left so your head is at around 45 degress-handy when the big breech is going up and down a few inches away!

 

And it goes on and on and on!

 

On second thought... No thanks. There is no knowledge that I would gain from such a thread, no one to convince of anything but you and thats pretty impossible for a multitude of reasons. So again, no thanks.

 

Could you guys agree to disagree because there wre so many modifications to all vehicles during WW2

 

If I recall it is you that has attacked Zaloga's work, correct? It is you that refuses to specify your problems with his work, correct? If you are feeling the need to discuss Panther vs Sherman or any other Zaloga book, or a book by any other author, do so. Don't try to make it my responsibility to start a thread so you can air your issues.

I think I see the problem you might be having. Reading. Do you see where I wrote that I wouldn't be starting a thread for you? Did you really understand that to mean I was going to start a thread for you?

Does that help?