German Knight's Cross For Sale On Norwegian Website!

It's a fake for sure. It's in WAF's fake gallery. Owned by someone in Norway. Strangely enough. Stewy

 

It's just scary what people fall for when you write it. I owned this cross, and i was behind the sale of it. Of course it didn't belong to Mäder or what his name was, it was totally bogus. I listed it as original, and waited for reactions, got a few mails on it. The site it was offered on is not like ebay, you need to contact the seller directly through mail and ask for price.

I posted it as original to see what reactions i got on it, got some interesting mails on it. I informed all who showed interest that it was a fake, and i sold it to a good friend of mine later.

The cross is a so called "new rounder". A friend of mine actually lost big money on it, who bought it from a "dealer in canada with a lot of other knights crosses and german crosses in gold/silver. He sold them all on the bazaar table on WAF, and i bought one from him there for around 250$ and later sold it to a friend for 200$

Hope that explains some

 

What would you have done when somebody had offered a really good price?

 

I would have informed the interested party that it was a forgery. I actually had an offer on 5000$ on it, but i told the guy who was interested that it was fake and that he could have it for 200$ if he was interested. It's not my intention to offer reproductions as originals. All items i offer have been discussed on WAF.

 

I don't think this is so funny, even if it was meant as some kind of joke and the fact that you wanted to see who was going to fall for it.
In my opinion the only way to deal with a fake is to destroy it or to mark it as such. Now it's still available on the market, who knows when it will be displayed again on an auction site and possibly be marked as "genuine" by another seller?
The fact that the ad mentionned an invented story and stated the EK as genuine makes it illegal for a start.

 

Not meant as a Joke, Skipper, meant as a test. To figure out how easy it could have been.

Of course that's one thing to do. But you see, even though if this is being done, i highly doubt it's going to help that much. Fakes are being made every day, and the fakes are getting better and better. By studying photos in books, and by browsing forums. But of course, if everyone
would destroy them or mark them, things would get a lot easier.

Nope, it's not. It currently hangs on Ewald Klüser's tunic (Ritterkreuzträger) as a display, as the current owner is a collector of headgear and tunics, he's not interested in spending 10k on a real cross.

Nope, again. When i posted it i never said the cross was 100% genuine without any single doubt, i said i was under the impression that it was genuine. No more than that, you see, that would just be my opinion. Not a proven fact. And that it belonged to Mäder, that story is not something i invented if you think so. The cross was sold from Canada to the US as Mäders cross. The "dealer" also sold him a lot of Hans Ulrich Rudel's decorations, of course not the real deal. There is no such rule on the site that it was offered on that states that collectibles such as militaria need to be overlooked by experts before sold. If i told you all the crap that shows up there you wouldn't believe me.

 

As you said earlier, scary, isn't it? I see your point but still what a waste of energy to check out what you probably already knew before. It's just a matter of mathematics. There is always a small percentage of people who will fall for it. The sad part is that some loose a lot of money and fakes literaly polute our collections. Collectors end up not knowing what is 100% genuine or not and I have friends who gave up collecting German militaria because of the high risk of getting fakes.

 

Yep, it might have been a bit of wasted energy. But i was a bit surprised, as i didn't believe it would be this easy. The site is often filled with crap, and those few items that actually are good wont sell. There's a nice SS single decal helmet there now, for around 4500$. Will probably not sell, as people are far to busy with mailing the guy who has a SS double decal for 800$.

I also have a some friends who stopped collecting, due to the fakes around. Although some have started again, after joining some forums. But i also know a lot of collectors who stays away from the forums and the so called "internet expertise" as they call it.

 

I still don't understand why you, so called, had to test the reaction of the viewers. You are obvious an expert in collectibles. So you know the price of a real one and a fake. You also must know that judging such a piece by some photos is very difficult, so the result of your 'test' could be known in advance.

 

I am not an expert in military antiques, i honestly don't believe there are any who can be called an expert in this field.

I had this done with a friend from a Norwegian collecting forum, he informed me about all the crap that filled that site, and he asked me if i believed if any of the fakes ever sold. I said i believed some sold, but also for a very different price than the asking price. We agreed to test this out, so i posted the cross up.

If a person seriously is interested in buying a knights cross, then he should (IMO) know the differences between a genuine one and a rounder before buying one. As the rounder crosses are probably the best known fakes of this decoration. And i did post up better photos later of the cross, per request. At least, to do a search for knights crosses on google, and the perhaps invest in a good book, ask a bit around and dig a bit first. perhaps also check out prices. Another norwegian friend of mine wanted to buy a RK (with oaks), was offered one at 17k, searched through norwegian sites who sells militaria, found dereksmilitaria.no, which has a link to samlerforumet.net, he was then advised to post the cross up on WAF. Which he did, cross was a post war S&L with fake oaks.

I know for example Helmut Weitze offers a KC with oaks and swords (by godet) now, and i believe he is asking around 35k euro for the set.

If it is to good to be true, it most likely is crap.

To make one thing very clear. No one was harmed by this, no one lost any cash, and no one was screwed. If you want me to, i can even get a photo of where the cross resides today

And yes, i do know it may not have been my best move, but i can't change that now. All i can do is to tell what really happened. I have no interest in to ruining my name by selling reproductions. I'll leave that up Charles Snyder.

 

personally I do not see the reason why you came on this site over a year later after the last posting of February 2010 to defend yourself and your actions............sorry man whoever you are going by an alias but red flags are coming up all over the place.

 

Think what ever you want Erich, there's nothing i can do with that. But i did not see this thread before now. Do you find it logical that i spotted the thread after it was started, and decided to wait 20 months before replaying?

And, i must say i believe i am well respected by many collectors, and i have done thousands of deals without any problems.

I hope you understand that it's pretty natural that i will defend myself. I honestly don't really see what the problem is when the cross was sold as a fake.

If you can find a person who have bought something from me, which was listed as original and turned out to be fake later then please let me know, this has never happened.

Remember that all items i sell have been discussed on WAF, as i believe i have pointed out before.

I really do not know what else i can tell you guys. I have told you what happened (a few times), and if you don't believe that, there's really nothing else i can do in this case.

EDIT: If i really was trying to fraud people, why would i then sign in here to say what i have said? No one knew it was me before i replayed.......

 

This is getting useless and it's wasting our time. Points are made and this thread is now closed