German tanks in Japanese service

I put it forward, that if the IJN had of been able to make its presence felt in any of the island battles, (distracting/preventing the USN's use of overwhelming firepower from air and ship) that the Japanese marines would've been better served by a proper medium tank, just as the USMC was by the M4's, in their battles, than the tankettes they had.

 

The IJN were supplied by various tanks. Such as the Type89A and Type89B models, the Type97 Chi-Ha and Type97 Chi-Ha Kai's, etc.


They were given the same as what the IJA had, with the exception of the late war models such as the Type3's and Type4's.

 

Sorry, I should have put in the qualifier "mostly", in my haste to post something coherent.

 

Ae Sun, glad to see you posting here and good luck in your continued studies. You bring new insights to us which is always good for a forum. Great topic here!

Gaines

 

Ditto! Excellent stuff Ae Sun.

 

It's been a long time since I haven't read such interesting comments. Keep going ladies and gentlemen.

 

The Marine Corps didn't field M4's until very late in 1943 (November) because of problems landing vehicles of that size. Prior to that it was all light tanks. The picture you posted of the M4 was taken in 1944. I'd submit that by the time Japan needed a medium to counter a US medium, they were already behind the eight ball in being able to ship the same to the forward areas. Their tactics were also changing towards a more static, fortified, attritional type strategy. If you read up on Saipan (Marianas) you'll see much information on how the shipping losses in troops, concrete, steel, ammunition and other building/fortification materials severely hamstrung the preparations of the defenses there. If it hadn't been for our submarines and aircraft sinking the majority of the men and materials being sent there it would have been Tarawa on steroids. Japan couldn't afford to ship 90 tanks to a threatened point with hopes of getting 30 deployed.

 

ok meanie greenie [ no malice intended ] I understand and agree with most of the points you make.....I think we are thinking most differently here....I'm saying, in general, in a lot of places [ not all of course ] the climate/land [ or lack of ] was not conducive for tanks, at all....

 

The Type97 Chi-Ha Kai was capable of destroying a Sherman M4 at ranges of 500 meters without problems. With An average of 97mm at 500 meters with Nickel Chromium Rounds.




M4 Sherman destroyed by penetrating hits by a Type97 Chi-Ha Kai at Iwo Jima

 

I am aware of the Japanese supply situation, and how overstretched the IJN was, and the challenges it faced.

Is that not part and parcel of the IJN's ability (or lack thereof) to challenge the USN? As part of the preparation for any battle?

I merely brought up M4's solely because it was suggested earlier that the climate / terrain of Pacific islands prevented the use of medium tanks (albiet German tanks). The date for the deployment of M4s does nothing to suggest that they were ill-suited to the purpose, quite the opposite.

This then, was the crux of the problem; resource starved Japan needed far more aircraft and ships, in order to meet the challenge from the USN, therefore these services received the lion share of steel and fuel. Given this limitation, the Japanese marines and army, had to make do. It was not that their style of fighting, nor the island climate that prevented/limited the use of a medium tank for the Japanese soldier. They needed Medium tanks too, but they had an even greater need for more destroyers, more aircraft carriers, more fighters, more....

 

It never occurred to me to look at gaming sites for tank information until the post on armor vs armament showed up but quite a good source or so it seems. Those guys are really keen:


http://worldoftanks.com/encyclopedia/vehicles/japan/chi_ha/

The 97 seems as thin skinned as Poppy...........kidding Poppy, anybody that lives where you do is not thin skinned at all.

Gaines

 

I usually go to http://www.wwiivehicles.com/default.asp

 

Was that production estimate before or after the fire raids started in March, 1945? I would think before. Also, what is the time frame needed to produce those 250 units?

Then, you would have to look at Japanese armor plate quality. Did it degrade in the "end game" period as the quality of German armor plate did?

 

Numbers were collected in 1945, the date or timeframe was never mentioned in my sources. However I agree to the possibility that it may have been prior to the American bombings.


As for the quality, the materials never changed from my understanding.

 

World of Tanks is an MMO tank style that does not use accurate levels of armour I'm afraid. The game series is based off balance, not historical accuracy.

 

I agree

 

Thanks for the prompt reply.

 

Can anyone post the stats for the tank in #4?

 

Perhaps I didn't express myself clearly. The point I was trying to make is that until very late in 1943 the United States could not deploy medium tanks without significant port facilities. It was the development and building of specialized amphibious ships that allowed this; APD's, LST, LCT's, etc. Up until that point light tanks were used. Japan's light tanks were sufficient to deal with these. When the US was able to deploy mediums, Japan first of all did not have these specialized ships, that would allow them to forward deploy a 30t tank, if they had them. The Japanese did eventually develop and would build some of these specialized ships, but up until that time, it would do no good for Japan to have a medium tank to counter the US M4 if it could not be forward deployed. Once they did have the shipping, the naval situation had changed to the point that, given probable losses they would suffer in transit, attempting to forward deploy a medium tank was a huge waste of resources. The defensive tactics had also changed to elaborate fortifications with interlocking fields of fire, pre-registered fires, etc. all aimed at maximizing attrition to US troops. A medium tank was no more valuable in this scenario than a good anti-tank gun in a steel, concrete, or coconut log bunker or cave. And the latter is cheaper in resources than a tank. Many of the tanks they did have were actually buried with the turret exposed for use as a makeshift pillbox. During battles such as Saipan and Peleilu where there were Japanese tank attacks, they were tank units that had been trapped on the islands, not new units shipped in to bolster the defenses.

 

Clarify?