Government: former Waffen SS reside in the UK

I didn't think "I was only obeying orders" was a sufficient defence. Age isn't a defence either say the German authorities.

That said, I offered my post for information only. Not much has been written about the contribution these men made to clearing up the WW II mines and dumped munitions around the UK.

 

This coming from a poster whose only contribution in all 44 of his responses has consisted or one two lines .

 

http://www.ww2f.com/search.php?searchid=143163

Talk about content rich

 

Sturmtruppen- Maybe they the ss veterans stayed in the United Kingdom in case there was a ww3, if that did occur the ss vets would of been on the winning side for once in there life time.

Eathwatcher- There was even British pow's that fought for Germany as well- The British free crops.

 

As someone who researches Axis PoWs in Britain, I for one would be very interested in any material you have on this subject.
I know I'm coming to this thread late, but it's not exactly 'shock-horror' news. Britain ran de-Nazification centres for PoWs (Watten camp #165 in the Highlands was one), and many former SS men from Eastern germany who passed through these centres and didn't fancy their chances returning home to the Soviet sector probably stayed on.
I've seen at least one interviewed on a programme about the murder in Camp 21 in Perthshire in 1945, and he can't have been the only one.

 

In Germany and even some of occupied Europe, being a member of the Waffen SS was to be a member of an elite, alot like the British SAS or Rangers (and no im not comparing them!). The Waffen SS had an unusual organization, in that they were a combat arm of the Nazi party and answered only to same, and they were of course, seperate from the Germany Army (Heer). Not even the Soviets had anything like it, even the Russian communists were content simply to assign a zampolit (political officer) to each military unit.
Pretty much all the SS were volunteers, but its not like Himmler had a recruiting table with slogans like "Join the SS! If you want to commit war crimes and atrocities, we're the ones for you!" All the information about the death camps and atrocities committed in them by the SS came out AFTER the war and most Germans were just as shocked as the rest of the world. Very, very few Germans knew what actually went on within them, even SS members. Even within the SS, the "einsatzgruppen" (special groups) were just that, hand picked from among the SS and ordered not to reveal anything about the murders they committed. And its common knowledge that even many Wehrmacht soldiers viewed the Waffen SS with contempt (although usually admitting to admiring their fanatical courage).
Im not trying to rationalize or excuse the atrocities the SS committed, just trying to point out that not all of them were murdering psycopaths as often portrayed by the media.
As for the British being worried about a few 80 year old ex-SS guys, im surprised they dont pay more attetion to other newer, younger, and far more destructive groups of immigrants they currently seem to be trying to cater to.

 

May I recall something I posted last month?

--------------

(1) wrong
(2) wrong
(3) wrong

How Aryan do these look to you?



I suggest you inform yourself a bit beyond the obvious stereotypes. A good starter would be Col. George H. Stein's The Waffen SS: Hitler's Elite Guard at War, 1939-45 . Here you'll find a good history on the Waffen SS structure, and recruiting practices as well. At inception it may have been as you describe, but soon after Barbarossa begun war realities become more pressing and recruiting of all manner of people (Asiatics, Italians, Balkanics as in the pic, etc) took place, as well as drafting (unvoluntary) from German manpower reserves as well as ater July '44 forced transfers from other branches of the Wehrmacht (LW and KM).

How Elite (British SAS or Rangers) do these look to you? Or the 6th Nordland who FLED in Finland? Too many Übermensch clichés, most of the Rogues should have grown out of that by now but apparently they haven't.

Ahh, so that's what's bugging you. What about the homegrown chavs?

 

urgh: Idle curiosity only (and deeply intrigued)- but what were you doing all alone in a cemetary at mid night in the first place?

 

Marc,

Pretty much all the SS were volunteers,

As Za Rodinu already said, a lot of them were conscripts (though of higher quality in the cases of Germanic SS units). The SS was not at its inception a military organization but a political one, as a new aristocracy or elite caste within Nazi Society.


All the information about the death camps and atrocities committed in them by the SS came out AFTER the war and most Germans were just as shocked as the rest of the world.

Six million men do not disappear without a trace. Their elimination took huge physical effort that was impossible to be made in secret. Things such as the construction of sites, the manufacture of toxic materials, the rail net movements, and apparent fact that millions of people had been moved through Germany and swallowed up by the camps provided ample evidence for anyone willing to connect the dots.

While how Jews actually were killed was not mentioned to the general public, the camps were not particularly secluded. Many SS men spoke freely of the camps to their friends and families. We have diaries and letters to prove this. It takes a lot of self-deceit the rationalize the complete disappearance of Jews in the Reich, and that is not ignorance.

This is to say nothing of the starving slave labourers who were delivered to various factory towns all over Germany.

It is also untrue that the rest of the world did not know. Everyone high-ranking in the US government knew. Actually at one time the proposal that the 8th Air Force should flatten the death camps was brought up but no one liked to entertain the thought of killing the prisoners so it was dropped.

 

Jerome, Cannock Chase was on fire...spent day with hundreds of others trying to stop it.

Come nightfall, we were damping down, I got the cemetary and memorial area to keep an eye on...There you go lad...you get off here..heres your brush..we will be back in morning...

Great thanks...tell me again about the skiing and canoeing??? The girls and the travel?

3 days 120 guys, no support, no food, no drink, no thanks. Well the WRVS turned up on day 3, gave us all beans and tea...nice ladies...snafu.

 

Hello

Now there are less than 600 vets of the Galician division alive in the UK. The youngest is 68. Most are mid eighties or 90’s.

Only a handful of those still alive ‘volunteered’ in any sense of the word. The majority – like my own father – were conscripted. In my father’s case 200 men from his village were rounded up by Hungarian soldiers on behalf of the Germans in June 1944, and taken at gunpoint to serve in the 14 Galician div.

There is no hard evidence against any former member of this unit living in the UK. The Division per se, has never been accused of any war crimes. Two of it’s affiliated units have – the 4th Police Regiment and the Volyhian Slef Defence Legion, which were both independent of the Galician Division at the time of allegations made against them, These units were incorporated into the Galician div in June 1944 and March 1945 respectively.

I have seen the evidence used to support these ‘allegations’ and it amounts to little more than circumstantial evidence and eye witness testimony which is confused and frequently contradictory. Hence, so serious attempt to prosecute.
Please note there are long standing animosities between the Pole and Russians and the Ukrainians and all the allegations come from them. During WWII the Galician Division was deployed on anti-partisan duties in Slovenia and Slovakia (that is territory with no links to the Poles or Russians) and in neither case have their respective governments levelled any allegations against the Galician Div.

There are more here in the UK than in the US. Canada may have as many.
There are a handful in South America, Germany, France or Australia.

Why were they brought to the UK? Good question. They really should not have been. Millions were forcibly repatriated by the Allies (mainly the Brits) such as the Cossacks in one of the most shameful episodes in British military history. Of all the eastern Europeans who found themselves in allied hands in the post war period, Stalin specifically singled out one unit he wanted back – the 14 Galician div, BUT this was the one unit that were not sent back.

Approx 8,500 men were brought back to the UK from Rimini were they had been held by the Brits, and held in POW camps throughout England, Scotland and Wales.

Some of these men were trained by the British Secret Service (MI6) and for the purpose of clandestine operations behind Soviet lines in the post war years. Kim Philby betrayed many of them who were captured by the Soviets.

While interned here in the UK, a large number worked in agriculture. Upon their eventual release, they were allowed to settle here in the UK or go to the US / Canada, an opportunity which many took.

I know a group was recruited for mine clearing a dangerous and difficult task. From memory they operated n Suffolk and Norfolk as well as elsewhere. Aso from memory their spokesman was Roman Dubainsky who was living in Leeds but I seem to recall they numbered around 75. I also seem to recollect there were casualties amongst these men.

If you want to know anything else read my book ‘To battle, The Formatin and History of the 14 Galician Div of the Waffen-SS’, or email me directly and I will email you the entire text
melnyk@mailcan.com

It took me 15 years to write so don’t expect to read it in one day!

Best wishes

Mike Melnyk

 

Maybe once Britian is done with the Ukranians they could perhaps persue Japanese war criminals, lol.

 

A lot of Waffen-SS Units have no war crime record, and many of them were built out of mostly conscripts ( volksdeusche, German, or otherwise) around a professional core. Some have horrifying war crimes records and some have some "heat of battle" moments (12.SS, etc.)