Greatest Mistakes of World War 2

According to David Fraser, the British, by sending troops to Greece, wished to show the world that "the British Empire did not abandon its Allies", and thus to encourage Turkey and Yugoslavia to join the war on their side. It's a little weak, but it's a reason, had the British had any kind of success in their campaign...

 

I agree with Roel, from a British perspective the Greek campaign was more political than strategic.

 

Sometimes this can have a more powerful impact than a successful, full scale invasion.

 

One could possibly argue that the fact that british troops were present in Greece did encourage the yugoslavs to replace their pro-german gpvernement, altough that seems a bit far fetched to me.

 

That is not what I am saying, however, it may have made the Germans to deviate troops from barbarossa.

 

I always thought that the British did not move into Greece until the Germans started coming to the aid of the Italians. After all, the Italians were doing so well that the Greeks where actually starting to move into Albania...

But maybe I'm wrong again!

 

The greeks at first did not want the british army to come to their help, as they tought that would inevitabely lead to a german intervention.
The greek dictator Metaxas wished Hitler to organise peace negociations between Greece and Italy.

But as it became more and more clear that Hitler probably would come to Mussoilinis help, the greek finally accepted british troop presence on their soil.
This presence was later the official reason Germany invoked for it's attack on Greece.

 

Hitler believed that he had no choice in the matter. British bombers based in Greece would have been within range of the Ploesti oil facilities, something the Germans did not dare allow.

 

I am just wondering, nobody mentioning the reeeealy huge mistake. Nobody heard of it or nobody cares?

Comrade Stalin happened to make Hitler too nervous by his Finland War as well as Bessarabia and Bukovina annexions. In other case he would have been sure to be the first to strike with his 24 000 tanks, while Hitler would be getting prepared for his "Zeeloewe". Ain´t I right?

 

Another one was to delay his Operation "Groza" from June the 12th to July the 15th, because of his fears that the flight of Hess might lead to a truce or peace with the English. Whatever happened, the preparations for the march west were so advanced, that he would have been forced to go ahead anyway.
In my opinion it´s the two gravest mistakes of the war, and both made by Stalin, not a fool. It´s hard to believe he fooled himself so profoundly.

 

It is an interesting scenario.
What if Stalin had attacked first?
I think I might start up a 'what if' thread about it!

To me, I have never really thought that Stalin was terribly serious about attacking Germany - for example he did not take his Golden Opportunity, when the Germans were off Conquering Northern/Western Europe.
The allowing of German recon flights over Soviet territory is another puzzler, as are the apparent orders not to fight back given to Soviet troops. Maybe he was hoping that such things would convince the Germans that the CCCP had completely peaceful intentions?

 

General,
My paternal Grandfather was with the Soviet tank troops at the state border in June ´41 (with Rokossovsky´s motorized brigade) and told me a lot what was going on. Only attacks were excercised. No defence measures whatsoever have been taken. No bridges on Bug were mined. Not even simple trenches were dug. He was himself witness to dismounting the extensive installations from the old Stalin Line on the former border. Why, you can read about it yourself. Either directly in books (most are in Russian and I don´t know if you read in Russian) although one author in English I can recommend is Viktor Suvorov. Or simply check his name in Google and/or Amazon.com.

Why didn´t he want to shoot planes etc… I think he wasn´t quite aware how serious Hitler was about his attack. I think he considered him a fool but not stupid enough to create two fronts again. He was afraid of provocations before his machine could start moving. Besides, why not show Hitler the masses of weapons and thereby deter him from attacking? That´s why I call it maybe the greatest mistake: Stalin´s lacking ability to get into H´s skin and see the world from his point of view. Each of them was so preoccupied with preparations for their respective offensives that an ability to think broader. And neither of them was preparing for a preventive war. It was first when the Germans realized what was really going on the Soviet side, did they realize that they actually preempted the possibly greatest threat to Europe since Genghiz Khan, or worse. Keitel´s defense (reventive war) in Nueremberg was an example of his experiences at the border.

What if…. Well, in my opinion, despite the RKKAs (Robocho-Krestyanska Krasnaya Armiya or the Red Army) relatively poor proffesionalism and stiffness, the Soviet soldier would have washed hish boots in the Atlantic a couple of months at most. I am not in doubt about that. Neither my Grandpa was.

Private Stern

 

Private Stern ( you don't have sir here )

You know, there were three German attack groups: the Army Group North(heading to Leningrad), the Army Group Centre (heading for Smolensk and Moscow) and the Army Group South (Ukraine). Do you know which one these your grandfather's troops were fighting? (Where was your grandfather fighting?)

 

Hi Izaak,

your granfather is a very lucky man if he was with the troops on the border and was still alive much later to tell you about it.

Thanks for the info - your arguments do seem very plausible. Neither man (Hitler or Stalin) acted in very predictable ways, and neither seemed very good at second-guessing their enemies.

Please - call me Ricky (or Richard, my real name. Ricky is an old nickname of mine). We are a friendly & informal forum.
Ranks in here are related to how often you post. The fact that I am a 'Major General' simply means that I talk too much!

 

He was a captain in Rokossovsky´s 9th Mech. corps (35th Tank Division), facing Group South (German 13th Tank Division) in Western Ukraine, initially around Lutsk, Klevan´and Olyka.

 

I know, Ricky, just joking.

Yes, he was lucky all through the war and after. In around 1947-8 he was sent to Palestine as an adviser to the forming Jewish army as "adviser" together with a good deal of weapons from Soviets and Czechs (Stalin wanted Brits out of Palestine, as you perfectly know).
Well, he then changed sides and stayed.

 

My guess was right, I mean that he fought in the south. I remember reading that there were attack units especially in the south.

 

As far as I remember, over 50% of Soviet tank troops were located within the so called Special South-Western Military Area, most of them to the west of Lvov (a so called Lvovskiy Vystup, a spearhead in the new Soviet-German border which Stalin wanted to make it easier to attack west, towards Krakov). This was a consequence of the adoption of the "southern variant of offensive. The other one, to the north of the Pripyat´Marshes was considered too risky, because a large part of troops would have to conquer the well defended East Prussia.
The "spearhead, as aconsequence of German attack became a sack where thousands of tanks and innumerable soldiers became surrounded).

PanzerMeister, I am happy that my Grandpa didn´t take part in the Winter War. Your countrymen were terrific and the Mannerheim Line was a masterpiece. Chapeau bas before the Fins, gentlemen.!

 

Thanks Izaak!
I have to correct you: Mannerheim Line wasn't that immortal. There were only a few concrete bunkers and the main thing that made ML so well-known was the stiffness of soldiers caused by love towards the homeland, religion and Finnish lifestyle.

 

BTW, what does that chapeau bas -thing mean? My English isn't so good and the dictionary remains quiet about it.