Hello WWII Enthusiasts!

You stated in an earlier post that you were an avid board, wargamer. Do you ever play computer wargames/simulations? If so, there is a grognard level, computer simulation of the Pacific War, War in the Pacific, Admiral's Edition. It is an older game, much upgraded, that does an excellent job at simulating the difficulties in waging the War in the Pacific, China, Burma and India. Extreme detail.
A handy resource for your perusal, Introduction to the Pacific War Online Encyclopedia (kgbudge.com) Ships, planes, ground units, locations, resources, manufacturing, rail/transport lines, events, are all covered here. An excellent handy resource when you are reading a book on the subject and want an explanation of what, where, or why.

The Pacific War had the greatest defeat of the British military in its history, Singapore. The United States had the largest surrender in its history in the Philippines (thank you Douglas MacArthur). The first naval battle in history where the opposing fleets never sighted or engaged in surface fire with one another, Coral Sea. The greatest defeat of the US Navy, the Battle of Savo Island. The largest aircraft carrier battle in history, the Battle of Philippine Sea, involving the largest single naval formation ever to give battle, US Navy TF 58. Arguably the largest naval battle in history, the Battle of Leyte Gulf, the US/Allies had 8 large CV's, 8 CVL's, 18 CVE's, (34 aircraft carriers),12 BB's, 24 CA/CL's, 141 DD's and DE's, about 1,500 aircraft, and numerous landing ships, and auxiliaries.
The Japanese had 1 large CV, 3 CVL's, 9 battleships (including the two largest ever built the 71,000+ tons with 18" guns, Yamato and Musashi), 19 CA/CL, 34 DD, and 300-400 aircraft. It was a war of epic proportions.

BP

Grognard=(ultra-hardcore wargamer (wargames - Advanced Squad Leader, Combat Mission, etc) Comes from French word that means "grumbler")

 

Welcome to the forum. Rich A. in Pa.

 

Cheers Rich A. in PA.

 

USMCPrice:

No not really a digital gamer at all. The only computer game I ever bought was "Harpoon" but I liked the table top version better. Played a small amount of "Red Orchestra" with friends and my god-son a long time ago. That's about it for computer games for me. I am a bit of a Luddite and Leveler in my hobbies, I am sorry to say. Lots of board wargames and table top miniatures to game with though. I love painting minis. Are you yourself a wargamer? I noticed you mentioned ASL in your grognard definition. I loved Squad Leader and Advanced Squad Leader. Several of my friends from back in the day still try to get together for a summer weekend to play some Blind Squad Leader and get in some miniatures games, but Covid somewhat torpedoed that for the last three years. Next year with luck however!

Your following analysis is spot on although I might rank tthe deafeats of the BEFs in France and Greece/Crete on a similar scale to Thailand/Malaysia. Savo was going to be my next topic! Good stuff!

Cheers and be well.
Evilroddy.

 

Hi guys
New things going on
I need to catch up with y’all
I’m visiting Family, but will check in .
See ya Laterrrrr

 

Slipdigit:

Did you ever play "Blind Squad Leader" as per the special rules published in the General Magazine by AH? It took the game to a new and nerve-racking level. Two players, each with their own identical boards and their own side's pieces before them, a vision blocking blind between them and a referee who can see both boards putting spotted or heard enemy units or concealment markers on the board of each opponent or removing them. Scouts became extremely important and well-laid ambushes actually worked. A night of gaming and you sweated off 2 Kg. due to stress. That should put your mojo back to full speed if you can find two other experienced players to game with. It's not as convenient as solo gaming but it is very engaging nonetheless.

Cheers and be well.
Evilroddy.

 

I used to be a big board wargamer back in the heyday of Avalon Hill. I've participated in a couple of miniatures battles, fun, but at the time I was in the military and didn't have the ability to store large quantities of miniatures.

My best gaming story is when I was in the Marine Corps. I was changing MOS and had been sent to Comm School at MCAGCC 29 Palms. The base has changed some today, but for years it was like living on Mars. It was 1,000 sq. miles of impact area in the high desert of California, surrounded by the 1,242.4 sq mi Joshua Tree National Park, the 305 sq mi Sheephole Valley Wilderness Area (Sheephole Mountains) and the 2411 sq mi Mojave National Preserve. The town of 29 Palms was really just a wide place in the road. There were like six WM's (women Marines) on the base and the small dependent housing area for permanent personnel was off limits (a good thing). On payday weekends (we were paid on the 1st and 15th) most personnel would swoop to Palm Springs, Las Vegas, Los Angeles or San Diego/Del Mar, and special services ran busses to each place, because the Marine Corps knew it was good to mitigate the boredom. With not much to do other than drink at the E club, boredom was a big problem on weekends.

I had an open squad bay with about 70 Privates, Pfc's and LCpl's. A Corporal and I, a Sergeant, had an NCO room at one end of the squad bay next to the quarterdeck, and were responsible for the barracks and all personnel assigned to it, in addition to attending the course. We marched the Marines to PT, chow and to class, supervised field days, and generally kept order and dealt with the personal issues of the individual Marines. During the week study, maintenance of uniforms and equipment, etc. kept the troops occupied and there were few issues. The weekends were another matter, if the troops didn't swoop, drinking at the E-Club or buying large quantities of beer at the PX, or liquor from the package store and drinking behind the barracks led to fights and other alcohol related issues. Discipline in the Marine Corps is paramount, and NCOs are expected to enforce it. The Corporal assigned to help me was a rather weak NCO, having come over from the airwing where discipline was not as strict. I'd come from the FMF side where discipline is strict. We started to have more and more issues, a lot of bitching, a few fights and several times when some of the non-rates ignored or disobeyed the corporal. I could normally intimidate the privates into doing what was required, but there was a growing surliness among the troops. I have always had good hands, and while I seldom instigate fights, don’t push me. I was a little above average in size, 6’ 195lbs like 2% bodyfat, I had taken taekwondo when I was in Korea and had boxed for my battalion in field day competitions between units (smokers). My brother, also in the Marines was 6’2 about 225, had better hands, and could hit like a mule (actually hit a guy so hard once his eyeball popped out of his head and was hanging by the optic nerve), we’d fought since we were kids, so we were proficient. Anyway, I had a LCpl bow up on me one day over field daying the barracks. He said, “F**k you Sgt.” shoved past me and headed for the door. I shouted, “Crowe, you pass through that hatch and you’re going to jail.” He stopped, I told him, “I can’t let your disrespect lie. I can pencil whip you or we can strip blouses and go behind the barracks and settle this shit.” We did, the platoon gathered out back and we went at it and I beat him until he said he’d had enough. I’m glad I didn’t pencil whip him because that would have ended his career, I ran into him two years later after I’d gone into the Army. He was at jump school with me and was a corporal in Recon. He thanked me for how I’d handled it and not ruined him.

cont...

 

USMCPrice:

Okay. I'm not sure where this is going, but have at it! So, putting a bit of stick about to the other-ranks and junior NCOs in training doesn't immediately correlate with best wargaming experience but let's see where this goes. I await your follow-on post with both curiosity and some trepidation.

Cheers and be well.
Evilroddy.

 

You are entirely correct. I got mid-story, and my wife pulled me away for another task (she wanted me to go with her to get another dog). Unfortunately, said task has kept me fairly tied up for several days (her dog, I am allowed take care of it), leaving me little time for what I want to do (puppies and babies). I've come by and read a few posts and answered some direct messages but then duty would call, and I'd be off again. I think I've got things enough under control to finish the story. Standby.

 

cont…

So, after fighting Crowe things settled down some but not for long. NCO’s in the Marine Corps have an enormous amount of power and leeway given them in managing their troops. Senior NCO’s mainly pass the word from the officers and hold formations, Officers only become involved in severe disciplinary problems and leave the running of things to the senior NCO’s (I think the Navy is pretty much like the Marine Corps in this, in the US Army the officers and senior staff run virtually everything, mid-level NCO’s are more just a paygrade, NCO’s are somewhat neutered). Because we were fully responsible for the troops, we were given wide latitude with regards to corporal punishment. I caught a troop slacking off, I’d correct them once, if they persisted they’d get restricted to barracks, draw extra duty, firewatch, battalion guard, working parties or I’d send them out to the desert on the weekends to fill sandbags on the fire and maneuver ranges. Corporal punishment was becoming less and less effective, and I didn’t want to start sending troops to the senior staff and officers for correction, that looked bad on me and left a permanent black mark in their record.

Bored Marines come up with some really stupid, but funny things to keep themselves occupied. One weekend they had a bet going that someone couldn’t drink a gallon of milk in one hours’ time and hold it down for 10 minutes. They came to me and asked if they could hold the competition on the quarter-deck and I told them fine but they were responsible for cleaning up the area. First guy attempted it, there was 60-70 dollars riding on the attempt, he got most of the gallon down in about 45 minutes, then it came back up like a firehose. Everyone had a good laugh, mopped the mess up, and started discussing strategies on how it could be done. More and more Marines thought “I can do that!” The pot grew bigger and bigger and word got around so we had Marines coming over in twos and threes from other barracks to make the attempt. (Back in the day I could to put away some milk, even I considered giving it a shot) Eventually over a two-day period there were people from all over the schools’ battalion coming by and taking a shot. The seven days store ran out of milk for probably the first time ever. The pool got up into the thousands of dollars. No one ever succeeded.

I had a big black Marine named Lax. He was 6' 4", about 240lbs and built like Terry Crews.





Anyway, Lax had been drinking Gin and it made him mean. It was like 0100 and I was awakened by a commotion. He'd come in drunk, woke several Marines up, was aggressive and attempting to start a fight. I woke up and ran out of the NCO hut, hollering, wanting to know what the f**k was going on. Lax had been a really good Marine and I had never had an issue with him. He looked at me and said, "F**k you Sgt., go ahead call the duty, I don't give a f**k." I told Lax just to calm down and go to bed, we'd forget everything, and could talk about it in the morning. He looked at me, "F**k you, ain't doin shit, call the OOD I don't care." He started to head back out so I blocked his way, “Lax you’re drunk, we don’t need any alcohol related incidents, so go get in your rack and sleep it off.” He shoved me and snarled, “get out my fuggin’ way or I’ll fugg you up.” I said, “Lax hit the rack now and it doesn’t need to go any further.” “Fug you Sgt. you can already burn me for assaulting an NCO. Screw this sheet, I’m gonna catch a ride home.”

He attempted to head for the door again, I shoved him back, he swung at me, I hit him in the face, whap, whap, whap, two jabs and a hook, didn’t even move his head. He grabbed me, one big bear sized paw on each side of my torso, picked me straight up and slammed me into a wall locker so hard the door crumpled inward. I thought, “son, you done fugged up, he’s going to kill you”. I punched him in the head several times with all that I had. His head barely moved. Normally, if I can get in two solid licks, I can make the other guy go lights out, this was new territory. He pulled back and slammed me again, this time my head slapped back, putting a round dent in a wall locker. I kept pounding, his left eye was rapidly swelling shut and he was bleeding from several spots. Things were looking bleak for me. Then I missed a punch and it hit him in the ear and neck, right below the TMJ where the jaw starts angling forward. Don’t know why but he stood up straight, dropped me, and was blinking his good eye and working his jaw. He said, “I’ve had enough Sgt., call the OOD (Officer of the Day), I’m ready to go to the brig.”

I liked Lax, he was a good Marine, plus if this whole thing went up the chain, I’d lost control of the situation, Lax’s head was all jacked up, he probably needed to go to medical and get checked out and a NCO had struck a non-rate which was against regs. I said, “Go to the head and get cleaned up. Hit the rack and we’ll discuss it in the morning, I don’t want to pencil whip you, you’ve been too good a Marine.”

I had a corpsman friend of mine check him out on the down low. I had Lax on permanent fire watch, and had other troops bring him his meals, until his head healed up enough for him to be seen outside. He was very thankful, loyal to me and turned out to be a really good Marine. I actually used him to help keep the peace in the barracks.

...the 96 hour pass and the great war.

 

....the payoff.
We had a formation and the battalion commander announced that because of something or another we'd excelled at we would be given a 96-hour (4 days) liberty in about three weeks. Good news. I checked the calendar, non-payday weekend, very bad news. How the hell was I going to maintain good order and discipline when 90% of the troops were going to be trapped on base for 4 plus days? Then I had an epiphany. I owned a massive wargame, one of the biggest ever produced, SPI's "War in the Pacific". It was so massive and so intimidating; I'd never attempted to play it. I called my wife and had her ship it to me, then I got a few troops to buy into attempting to play it. We pooled money, planned what snacks, soft drinks, beer and tobacco products we'd need. Collected actual USMC message books, expired code books used for teaching, made up and duplicated forms we'd need. Worked out special procedures and gave out duty assignments. One private (on his own initiative) signed out a big portable grill and cooler used for unit parties from special services. Word got out and I got buy in from more and more of my Marines and a couple of NCO's from other barracks. It got to be a really big deal. The game arrived and we began final preparations. Copies of the rules were distributed, tables and charts were copied, I made the corporal and myself move out into empty racks in the squadbay, and we taped the seven map sections to the deck and began sorting and setting up counters. Myself and the other NCO's were referees. I let the troops choose sides and pick a CinC for each group. We had American, Japanese, British Commonwealth/Dutch and Chinese/Indian. Each CinC would assign area/fleet commanders, they'd assign air bosses, logistics, TF, armies/divisions, liaisons. We had teams tasked with logistics, teams tasked with ship repair/upgrades/maintenance, planning, etc. Unless the commands were co-located communications had to be done via radio or courier. We used the message books to actually write and deliver orders and communications. If a commander wanted a face to face, he had to hand over his duties to his exec, schedule transportation by his air boss, allocate aircraft and escort if any, the commander would have limited control during his travel time. Most of the planning orders, etc. were done without seeing the actual battle map, which was in the NCO hut. They had little situational map overlays, they'd keep updated with the best, up to date status/intell available. Groups would only go into the room when it was time to run their tactical portion of each week's turn. The game ran from shortly after noon on Friday, when the troops were dismissed until the following Tuesday at midnight. People sat around drinking, snacking, planning, discussing. Had to deal with some setbacks, celebrated some victories with cigars. The only time they'd leave is to rotate through the chow hall, catch some sleep, shower or make a head call, someone was always on duty to make decisions.
We'd even encript/decript messages using expired code books, if you transmitted in the clear, a die roll could lead to interception. We actually had several incidents where action messages were lost due to using incorrect cyphers or transcription errors during encrypt/decrypt. That was a good real world teaching moment. PAY ATTENTION TO DETAIL. Personalities and competing priorities led to issues and problems, just like IRL. Good commanders were promoted, bad commanders sacked and moved into areas they could still prove useful. We even had the Lieutenant (OOD) and Gunny that were the duty stop by for an extended time, had a burger, hot dog, Coke and observed the goings on. They were very complimentary and interested in the progress. They'd check in when making their rounds to get the latest status on the campaign. In one of the other areas, they actually had a big brawl break out and some people went to swinging e-tools, some severe injuries and one dude had the ball of his nose bitten off. That could have easily been my guys.
That is the only time I ever attempted to play that game. However, it was worth every penny due to the enjoyment and memories we got out of it that one long weekend.



This is the game. I had the big box version.

 

USMCPrice:

That sounded magnificent. It sounds like all had a great time and that you kept them occupied plus out of trouble for 96+ hours. Mission accomplished. Well done!

I debated buying SPIs War in the Pacific in the early 1980s but I never did. I did buy War in the East and War in Europe and played those games with a group of friends and militia other-ranks, NCOs and two officers in the late 1970s. Like WitP they were huge games, especially WiE. I love those games. However my favorite SPI game was the BAOR and the Fulda Gap games which while smaller were exhausting to play due to their friction of movement/combat rules.

Your big session with WitP reminds me of a game of 6mm micro armour we played in Ottawa over a long weekend at a wargames convention in the very early 1990s. It was a huge game where senior commanders were sequestered from the game table in other rooms. In the game a Soviet Motor Rifle Regiment (40 T-64Bs and over 100 BTR-60s and 70s) supported by a Btn of 120mm mortars, three Btns of SP arty (2 122mm and I 152 Btn) and an independent tank regiment (156 T-72 BVs) tried to force a river crossing against a German Mechanised Brigade on the North German plain. The game was played on a 17.5 ft. by 8ft. table (9km by 4km) with rolling terrain and some small forests and towns between the Soviet line of departure and the river. There was a recce phase, an airstrikes phase an initial bombardment phase with lots of smoke and then the attack developed in earnest. The Germans had moved one Btn of Marder 1 mechanised infantry, one Btn minus one company of Leopard II MBTs across the river while two Btns of of light mechanised infantry, one company of tanks and all sorts of support were deployed on the German side of the river. The battle was collossal with 7 Soviet Btn commanders at the board and two artillery, one airstrikes commander and one recce commander off in another conference room in the hotel. The Germans had two Btn commanders and four Cmbt Team commanders at the board and lis an over all commander, an artillery commander and an airstrike and Aeroweapons commander in a reception room off the main hall where the gaming table was located. There were four referees, including myself with clip-boards holding lists of randomly generated numbers for D-6 and D-10 rolls, to speed up the pace of play. We got the battle done in just over ten hours of play and won awards at the convention for best terrain and best game that year. While the Soviets were able to destroy or break the Cmbt teams on their side of the river, they could not force the crossing with two Btns of BTR infantry and some ferried tanks, so the game was a bloody stalemate. The table which had started out as idyllic Northern German countryside dotted with farms, hamlets and towns had become a ruined and burning Les champs du Mars (the fields of Mars/battle) strewn with hundreds of wrecked vehicles and human carnage. It was ghoulishly terrifying in a miniature and sanitised way.

Cheers and be well.
Evilroddy.

 

OpanaPointer:

Yes, in 1973 at my Grammar School's wargames club in the UK. Hex BB-16 and sore knees from fighting ship to ship actions on the floor are all I really remember. Black and blue ships and knees all at once.

More than two decades later I played a small role in a miniatures game of Jutland in a wargames convention in Lancaster, PA. The models brought the action to life and the chap running the game certainly knew his stuff, unlike me! I was the greatest threat to the Royal Navy in the game and I was playing on the British side. I was no Scheer nor even a Jellicoe.

Cheers and be well.
Evilroddy.

 

I remember playing it as well. IIRC it was one of Avalon Hill's earlier games. I really liked their games, France 1940, Tobruk (really good), Iron Men, Wooden Ships, then the whole Advanced Squad Leader series.

 

Sounds outstanding, I wouldn't mind trying one of those sometime. I really think you'd enjoy some of the excellent computer simulations out now, the graphics and effects really enhance the experience. I know one I really enjoy playing against the AI is "Napoleon; Total War", the Darthmod version. My sons are trying to talk me into playing an online game with them, it's called "Arma 3, the MAC-V SOG Prariefire mod. Apparently, some of the MAC-V SOG legends helped in crafting the mod.



Looks interesting.

You mentioned Les champs du Mars; check out this picture of an IED strike in Afghanistan taken by my younger son in Afghanistan.



For scale the three vehicles with lights on them to the left are 10' tall M-RAPs and they're a good ways back from the strike.