How Hitler could have won

Given the sparsity of the German fields even if things went perfectly for the Germans they would probably have a much harder time hitting a mine if that's what they were trying to do (at least if they avoided their own).

 

Should not that in truth be called the second and third battle of Narvik ? The battle against the 3.500t Norwegian Norge and Eidsold coastal defence ships by the German flotilla had already lowered the ammo supply of some of the German ships (mostly Z 21 and Z12) before any RN ship got to the scene.

 

AHHH,you are beginning to sound like a politition.

 

so why didnt they .. the germans do it?

 

It's also important to note that the LW isn't the only airforce with anti-naval capacity. RAF Coastal Command could absolutely devastate the Barge fleet, while Bomber command could concentrate on attacking port facilities (Bomber Command actually had some success in sinking the barges while they were docked). This would have the additional benefit of forcing the LW to intercept the bombers.

 

Here's what's waiting for the German first wave


Military equipment found within the UK on 1st June 1940, the date Dunkirk ended;

600 Tanks (140 Infantry tanks, nearly all Matilda II, 141 cruiser tanks, and 407 light tanks)

2,242 Bren/Universal Carriers

333 2 pdr anti-tank guns

606 25 pdr Gun/Howitzers

280 4.5inch Howitzers

6,675 Boys anti-tank rifles

14,026 Bren guns

3,100 2inch Mortars

261 3inch Mortars

and last but not least

1,500,000 SMLE .303 Rifles


By late August 1940 the situation regards armour was as follows;

272 Infantry tanks

322 Cruiser Tanks

659 Light Tanks

3,784 Bren/Universal Carriers

 

That doesn't matter! The Germans are coming in cork lined "unsinkable" barges! What do tanks, Bren carriers, rifles, artillery, and the RAF and RN have to do with anything?

 

and how was winnies gas stockpiles coming along .

 

I just wanted to point out that a ship gains its bouyancy from displacement. Adding a bouyant material above the waterline or within the hull would only add to the weight.

 

An excellent direction this thread is going! Of course Sea Lion was possible. If Raeder gave the OK to open the camoflaged doors of Wilhelmshaven, and unleash the fleet of 20 aircraft carriers and 30 Battleships, then the Royal Navy would not stand a chance! After they conquer the British, the fleet could sail to America and bombard Norfolk! Draw out the American Navy into a Decisive Battle and sink them once and for all! Then, put wheels or tracks on the ships, and send them onto land. They could roll into Moscow!

 

Had me worried there for a second, Soar......

 

That nagging reality/fact seems to be lost on those who wish to make "unsinkable" barges with cork, balsa, or kapok...

 

Superb point. If anyone is a compulsive military gambler and warmonger, Hitler's the man. So why didn't he?

Operation Sealion was taught in Canadian Command School as a textbook example of poor amphibious assault planning. The Sandhurst maneuvers, by using mine fields, gained a lodgment on the beaches... before the home fleet blasted Kriegsmarine to pieces and cut the attackers off to die.

Operation Cerberus is a red herring. In reality, Kriegmarine surrendered the Channel to the Royal Navy by withdrawing the three heavy cruisers to the North Sea.

Adolf Garland, commander of LW fighter forces, latter claim that when Sealion was scrapped, a collective sigh of relief swept over the Wehrmacht. It is an amphibious three division (-) assault operation against an alert and prepared enemy center of gravity, missing air or naval superiority, and sans heavy weapons.

Let 'em come. It would just be three more divisions wiped out of Germany's order of battle.

 

THREE ENTIRE German divisions? Don't they have ray guns? The British are done for! And like I said earlier, put wheels and tracks onto the Battleships and roll them onto the beaches of Dover!

That's enough sarcasm for one day.

 

Cork and kapok have been used to make "unsinkable" lifeboats and vests for ages, the boats retain a positive buoyancy even if completely waterlogged because of the large volume of very lightweigt material used. IIRC to stay afloat you need to have more than one cubic meter of unwaterlogged volume for every metric tonn of weight.
Designing a useful "unsinkable" barge with 1940 technology is hard, most lightweight materials have no structural usefulness so are basically dead weight with balsa being the obvious exception. AFAIK expanded foam that is a nearliy ideal filler as it can be "injected" in any empty space and is very light, was not available in 1940. Assuming a raft with a Panzer III weighting around 50t overall it would need an additional 50t of "filler" (assuming a specific weight of 0.5 for the filler) to give it the reqired waterlogged displacement of 100 cubic meters, that's a lot of deadweight to carry.

Some pictures from actual seelowe contraptions .... I especially like the gun barge made up of empty fuel drums with a plank in front to give it some sort of hydrodinamic shape.

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There's also the question of just how useful an "unsinkable" barge is in terms of the invasion. For one a barge full of water is going to be a lot slower than the alread slow barge. How much of it's load is going to be useable? Certainly soldiers who have spent an hour or 20 in Channel temperature water are going to be somewhat less than effective. Then there's the question of what you do with your waterlogged barge. Do you assign more assets to recover it? If you do what's involved in getting it operational again?

 

The British had also taken delivery of almost 1,000 75mm guns in June and had them inthe hands of the troops by early August.

On another line the RN also had some planes that were skilled at attacking naval targets and was probably the leading service as far as night attacks by planes on ships at this point in time.

 

Zombies....Lou you have to ruin the thread by bringing the republicans into it.....

 

I am currently digging my hole and inviting any Brit to join me in the auxillery force of stay behinds.....We are going to need you all....Apparantly we are going to be invaded....

If it was possible it wouild have been tried....It wasnt tried because it wasnt possible. Give me strengh. The brits by the way were all at the coast during this scare season....eating ice cream and knotted hankeys on our heads....We were that daft.