How Much did the Germans Know?

The cover of the book on the following site is interesting

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0700612343/002-9117199-6307223?v=glance

And if you check closer it is Leni Riefenstahl wittnessing a mass murder as she visits the front , I recall it was Poland. She tried to stop the men, but according to her one German soldier aimed his gun against Leni and said they should have to do the same to her. We only have her word though. But interesting photo moment...

 

I mentioned this in my most recent topic, but yesterday when I was doing annotations, something caught my eye that is relevant to this topic.

http://www.verbrechen-der-wehrmacht.de/pdf/vdw_en.pdf

On page 13 which is headlined "Heidelager", it talks about a German POW camp for Soviet prisoners and it became a "popular destination for excursions by the local population." Although this is just one camp and this didn't happen with every camp, it proves that some Germans knew what was going on and even saw the prisoners.

 

3,5 million dead Soviet POW´s during winter 1941-42 in German camps. At least this would be a massive job for the german people to bury...

 

Probably they were buried by other POWs.

 

I mean this number of people dead cannot be hidden. Even Himmler regretted this as he thought in 1943 or 44 that they would
have been am awesome number in work projects.

 

How about learn from the people who suffered, means to a large part Jews...

http://www.hdot.org/en/learning/myth-fact/hitlerorder.html

Quotes:

"Hitler and the Nazi regime were very secretive about the 'Final Solution.' Hitler didn't want to leave an evidence trail that would inflame his own population or the leadership of other countries"

"Hitler often transmitted his important instructions orally. Peter Longerich, a University of London historian and Germanist who has written about Hitler, notes that "Hitler avoided giving a clear written order to exterminate Jewish civilians. He avoided speaking openly about killing in his entourage

"Hitler signed an order for the T-4 euthanasia program in which perhaps as many as 100,000 German citizens who were thought to be 'unworthy of life' were murdered. That order was found after the war. When the German population caught on to what the Nazis were doing they protested and Hitler was forced to publicly back down and cancel the program (although it continued in secret). Having been embarrassed by a written order once, Hitler would be wary of doing it again."



Which leads one to find that MOST Germans did not know it or even if they knew they would protest.....I bet it is simmilar true to most of Japanese people that they did not know the rape of Nanking and killing/torture of allied POWS....

 

Also it is now established knowledge that no so called "death" or extermination camps were on German proper area (means the pre war German territory), most of the "final solution" was carried out in Poland - read about Operation Reinhardt for more info. Sure there were concentration camps in Germany (of course in Poland they were death camps no one has any doubt here) and western conquered territory but not so called death camps with gas chambers etc.

Concentration camp is also not a German invention btw. In concentration camps in German/Western Europe were held prisonders and treated bad yes, but not exterminated ON PURPOSEin gas chambers. This happened mostly in the Op. Reinhardt camps in Poland.- I just add this, but it should be established knowledge today. So,the Nazis tried everything to hide their crimes, which means MOST "normal"German citizen did not know....this was also the reason to move this operation to the Polish countryside - so it could be much easier hidden from the populace..



Edit: It seems many that knew about the Euthansia protested too (in Germany)

It wasn’t long before protests began mounting within Germany, especially by doctors and clergy. Some had the courage to write Hitler directly and describe the T.4 program as “barbaric”; others circulated their opinions more discreetly. Heinrich Himmler, head of the SS and the man who would direct the systematic extermination of European Jewry, had only one regret: that the SS had not been put in charge of the whole affair. “We know how to deal with it correctly, without causing useless uproar among the people.”
Finally, in 1941, Bishop Count Clemens von Galen denounced the euthanasia program from his pulpit. Hitler did not need such publicity. He ordered the program suspended, at least in Germany. But 50,000 people had already fallen victim to it. It would be revived in occupied Poland.

http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/hitler-suspends-euthanasia-program

 

Well according to:
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Holocaust/major_camps.html
None of the camps in Germany were dedicated "death" camps on the other hand the fatality rate in some of them would appear to be high enough that I would think they could still qualify as "death camps"

 

I have been looking into this recently as part of my buddhist reincarnation excercise which has taken me back to ww2 and before.

Regardless of who I was at the time what matters is the truth. I at the same time don't want to spend that much time on here.

I am looking at current events and can see the number of immigrants trafficked (human trafficking) is growning so is the number of displaced persons. This can be due to natural disasters, bombings, they are now bombing civilians as well in the name of fighting terrorists and so there is often no formal war declared.

This means many people end up in camps that are designed for immigrants (we are talking millions), who can not work therefore need to be supplied food. And OK the UN does this. Farming cycles are desrupred by conflict this also causes femine.

The number of people who dissapear or are undocumented and so this means no one knows where they are, and they are never found is staggering.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-19637409 (Capita gets contract to find 174,000 illegal immigrants)

I will never question the fact 6M jews have been exterminated in the war.

I however believe and OK research supports this and everyone can find these things easily, that many camps started as concentration camps. These were for political prisoners and had NO facilities for mass murder.

A few of them have been built/converted into what is called "extermination camps" that were then solely used for mass murder, mainly by gassing.

There were combined camps as well, examples: Auschwitz-Birkenau and Majdanek. This means people were made to either work or were gassed.

Mortality rate was high in all types of camps due to the dire conditions, lack of funding and supplies.

My conclusion is that I can see many sinergies between what is happening today and therefore believe that fasism never ended. It's just that it's now informal and covert albeit ingrained in the current economic system.

About Hitler:

I personally believe that Adolf Hitler was not a mass murderer.

Hitler participated in ww1 as a gefreiter (lance corporal).

This is a high mortality position he didn't mind doing. Before/during ww2, he and his ministers made successful improvements to the German economy. This took him 3 years. This is why people liked him. It worked.

He then got entangled in what has become ww2, which got out of hand. I don't believe that he, or his inner cirle was intending to terminate anyone as such, it started as a normal war.

It has most certainly resulted in the extemrination of 6M jews and many others as well, which I will never deny.

About camps:

Many camps have been run dating back to 1897, Cuba, That one was set up by General Valeriano Weyler.

Many camps be that labour camps with high mortality rates or covert erosion, have also been run and are being run at present. Examples inculde communist camps during the Soviet era, Guantanamo bay, etc. We are talking about the USA and the Soviets, both have also had their own camps, yet they are portrayed as "relief troops" which they were. Germany therefore was and still is portrayed as being much worse or very different from other nations which it isn't.

Most of the photos that were taken of the bodies show they have died of starvation. This is now what is happening in the ebola affected regions in Africa.

So did the Germans know? Most of them had no idea.
Did Hitler know? Yeah.
Has he and his head of Propaganda committed suicide in April/May 1945? Yeah
Is this still going on today? Yes.
Do we want to fix this today? I hope so.

It is this that the jewish survivors should research (easy) and promote. That is if they want to stop this happening. This is a covert machine that erodes people.



































was

 

Too long already.

 

Yes, this is true, due to bad treatment and diseases etc. I only wanted to show that MOST "normal" Germans did not know and Nazis tried everything to hide it..even the Allies did not know everything - until the Allied recon planes could reach the camps in Poland (basically when they established bases in Italy)

 

Indeed. It would have been shame to risk closing this good topic just because a silly troll is provoking negative reactions.

 

I too would be disappointed if this topic that I started was to be closed because of someone purposefully trying to provoke negative reactions. To say that Hitler, a man who was the instigator of the war and was the one who issued orders such as the infamous Commissar Order, was not a mass murderer is bound to provoke something. Let's just all hope this doesn't come to that, for I would hate to see this topic get closed.

 

I suspect in this case it's not the topic but account that's likely to be closed. In the past when such obvious "personalities" have shown up a brief open season has been declared before their posting privledges were disabled. That said this one is simply so off the wall ignoring it seems to be the best option.

 

I agree with you all the way on that one.

 

I disagree, to the full extent no, but eyewitness accounts were pouring into Allied intelligence sources since 1942.

 

It would be amusing though

 

Amen Brother