Did Saddam Hussein Use Poison Gas on the Kurds? Here is an excerpt from a 93-page 1990 Pentagon report, published just prior to the invasion of Kuwait. Written by Stephen C. Pelletiere, Douglas V. Johnson II, and Leif R. Rosenberger, of the Strategic Studies Institute of the U.S. War College at Carlisle, Pennsylvania.
So everything revolves around this one sentance: "and it seemed likely that it was the Iranian bombardment that had actually killed the Kurds" and that proves nothing. The whole article is rather futile. Not sure what you're trying to "reveal" with it.
I think the point Knight Templar is trying to make is that we cant be sure of anything. This article raises the possibility that it wasnt Iraq that hit the kurds. And in his other posts im not sure, and im not trying to put words in your mouth Knight, but I think he means more to say that we shouldnt trust very much we hear, and take EVERYTHING with a grain of salt. Am I right?
If we haven't learned that through researching WW2 (for years in some cases) then we'd be the greatest load of fools in the world.
Dasreich, You are quite right. There's plenty of information out there, and I don't consider it unpatriotic to research these claims made by the government. All I am doing is providing some credible source material here: you are free to draw your own conclusions. This is an official Pentagon document, written by the Strategic Studies Institute of the U.S. War College at Carlisle, Pennsylvania: not exactly a page out of PRAVDA. It's intended for people interested in actually investigating these historical claims made by the government, and not for the gullible throng who get their news spoon-fed to them by Dan Rather or CNN. Check out my other link at 9-11 Timeline. It provides sources for info on the fighter aircraft sent up to intercept the airliners that morning. Turns out there were quite a few Air Force planes in the air! Very interesting.
Das Reich, your last staement of the above post says it all ! Don,t trust anyone with the information given by the media, it is all warped. Unless you have been there and talked with the locals you will no nothing of the truth. I've been to Israel and talked with both sides and it still doesn't mean Jack Diddly !!, but I sure got a whomping eye opening experience nontheless. In simple terms and this does not cover the Irag situation but the two forces hate each other tremendously and we will never see peace there as long as we live......and I mean complete peace, not a short term cease fire...... // sorry for the ramp.. E
So Knight, what is your proposal then ? Do we take up arms and revolt or take on the act of vigilante's ? no offense please, just your thoughts. This is one reason why my own little town of 23,000 is so very anti-government and the survivalists movement is so incredibly strong here. E
Erich Brown, "What we should do as citizens?" How's this: Read. the information's out there, it's just that most people are too lazy or brainwashed to go dig it up. It's not going to be on the front page of USA Today. I believe that we can use the lessons learned in the 2nd World War to try and understand political situations of today. For a comprehensive and frightening look at the events leading up to Pearl Harbor Day, I encourage you to visit this site: http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/6315/pearl.html Best regards, Knight Templar
Hmmmmmm how about something in your own words ? I'm getting a little tired of many on this board quoting others as duplication of what they feel.... take care, E
dasreich, i am sorry to hear that you will be contributing to our country's downfall. My only point of hope is that in the 2008 election i can cancel out your vote with a vote for the republican side. BTW, it was also mentioned that TIME said that 82% of americans are against the war. But in reality, the majority supports the war. Your '82%' is of liberal journalists, not the public. CVM
CvM; the republicans and the democrats are two sides of the same coin. 2004 and 2008 will be the nationwide flipping ceremony. And the only downfall to this country are those who care more about party rhetoric than the issues. As for public opinion...if the majority of the people support this war, as i fear, than the majority are misinformed as to the consequences of an attack on iraq. [ 22 September 2002, 10:06 PM: Message edited by: dasreich ]
dasreich: True, indeed: the President has a very important job, which is to sell established policy to the American public. "Rebulicans" and"Democrats" are simply the salesmen tailored for different situations, that's all. People who think they're actively participating in a dynamic, democratic process with politicians who represent their interests miss the point in a big way. Rush Limbaugh (a source used by some forum members, I'm sure) describes this fantasy world where "Big Government" Liberals duke it out with Business-Minded Republicans in an almost comic-book environment. Ignoring the blatant fact that these are all the same people!! Big Government and Big Business joined forces many, many years ago (before the 1st World War.) Do you ever see Republicans trying to cut taxes? When do Democrats try to restrain the excesses of big businesses? Who out there actually believes this crap? The majority of citizens do not vote because they know it doesn't matter. The politicians and the monopolies do whatever they want, regardless of public sentiment. Erich Brown, You're asking me "what should we do about our government?" It's hard enough getting some of the people on this forum even to acknowledge the existence of Iran-Contra, Tonkin Gulf, or the USS Liberty. I mean... if they can't appreciate the fact that the government was selling heroin to the American public and weapons to the Iranians, then, what's the point of me suggesting to them that we should try and change things?
To be honest in the US system it is very hard to do anything anyway. The whole system is designed to stop the Administration doing things through a whole raft of checks and balances. Corrupt this with soft money, vested interests, campaigns based on TV advertising and low voter turnout and you get a ramshackle democracy incapable of delivering change or reform. Mr Smith still hasn't reached Washington. Jumbo
dasreich, It seems that forum members (in support of an Iraq war) are unwilling even to accept papers published by The Pentagon as reliable source material. If that's not good enough evidence for them, then I don't know what is. Who knows, KT
I certainly wouldn't accept the Pentagon as reliable: they're usually so busy briefing against each other they only tell the truth by accident. Jumbo
Jumbo, True enough. But, they're never on my side of the fence. When the Pentagon says that Hussein may not have gassed the Kurds, then you have to wonder a bit.
You know i'd just like to say that this country is not made up of agencies whose job it is to lie and send this country into spirals that will cause it's destruction. It is my belief that although in every job there are people who are just plain bad people or not qualified, but it is my feeling that the majority of politicians and workers in the federal and state Governments want to do things in the best interests of the country and state. There are things that the public can't know...when that is important to specific agencies...that automatically spauns mistrust...is it bad to question? NO But to think of them in terms of an enemy...well THAT is wrong. The people who run the federal and state governments in politics and law enforcement are some of the most accomplished and learned people in society. Not to mention the group of people who tend to have the highest amount of pride and patriotism in their blood. These people are normal people who could be your neighbor mowing his lawn, or fishing is his boat. Not wierd capitolist nuts. Some people granted don't belong there...but that is common to any workplace. these people that work in the FBI, police, government(yes even politicians), military all want to work and spend their working lives to help make a difference in society. Not make it worse. It really bothers me when people refer to our government like it's run by "others" who actually WANT to do harm to the US They make mistakes...so do we when we rearend the car in front of us...we were not paying attention but it didn't mean we wanted to total our car...or when we hit a poor kid that ran in the street...some mistakes are tragic and should have been prevented. But i'm telling you this anti government rehtoric is overboard...i have a goal of going into the FBI or law enforcement...is my goal to be secretive, kidnap people and make them dissappear, kill people, Lie, steal money, discriminate? NOOO It's is to serve my country and try and protect society. To find people who kill and endager good people like who go on these forums. To help get people off the street who have about as much conscience as Knight Templar has trust in the government. To look back after I retire and say wow...maybe i helped save an innocent person from an evil person. These people risk there lives in all branches of government so people can feel free to be cynical and not be locked up or executed. It is ok to question...but when it comes to making them the enemy and trying to in a sense run the country into the ground...then people need a reality check!
