Lancaster Bomber 514 Squadron

And a belated Merry Christmas and Happy Healthy New Year to you and yours, sir!

 

i know this is now a lengthy period after the start of this thread but i read things here with interest.

Jack Bester was a crew member on LW166 of 427 sqn and its correct, he did indeed spend time at Fretval.

My was is the great niece to Flt Sgt Steel , the Air Eng that died along with PO Moss that night, or should I say the early hours of the 5th.

I have spent many many hours over the last 6 years researching Steel, LW166 and this crew to the point Im at now when Im in regular contact with Jack Besters brothers, The daughter of FO Siddall (his story is a story in its right), Im in contact with the family of Budd Moss the pilot that died, Ive spoken briefly with Atkins widow and im in regular phone contact with Jim Finnie , the last surviving member of the crew and his family.

The history of that flight, the aircraft and its crew are no longer a mystery. Ive discovered the pilot of the plane that shot them down, i know who helped Siddall evade capture, I know exactly what happened to Atkins at Fresne and Buchenwald, I know everything about the "Forced Marches" that Brown and Finnie had to endure. I know all about the dog fight in the sky that forced LW166 down, the bailing out of the crew, and the ultimate demise of Steel and Moss. I have also answered the mystery as to why Atkins name is commemerated on Moss and Steels grave even though he survived the war and was repatriated to Canada. Ive also been in contact with Georges, the farmer that was witness to tha crash and has the parachute fragment.

I have a large archive of facts, figures, documents, names and dates on this crew and a/c - Well, almost! I know virtually nothing of Sgt BROWN one of the gunners. If anyone can help me locate him or his family I would be very appreciative.

regards

paul

 

i know this is now a lengthy period after the start of this thread but i read things here with interest.

Jack Bester was a crew member on LW166 of 427 sqn and its correct, he did indeed spend time at Fretval.

My was is the great niece to Flt Sgt Steel , the Air Eng that died along with PO Moss that night, or should I say the early hours of the 5th.

I have spent many many hours over the last 6 years researching Steel, LW166 and this crew to the point Im at now when Im in regular contact with Jack Besters brothers, The daughter of FO Siddall (his story is a story in its right), Im in contact with the family of Budd Moss the pilot that died, Ive spoken briefly with Atkins widow and im in regular phone contact with Jim Finnie , the last surviving member of the crew and his family.

The history of that flight, the aircraft and its crew are no longer a mystery. Ive discovered the pilot of the plane that shot them down, i know who helped Siddall evade capture, I know exactly what happened to Atkins at Fresne and Buchenwald, I know everything about the "Forced Marches" that Brown and Finnie had to endure. I know all about the dog fight in the sky that forced LW166 down, the bailing out of the crew, and the ultimate demise of Steel and Moss. I have also answered the mystery as to why Atkins name is commemerated on Moss and Steels grave even though he survived the war and was repatriated to Canada. Ive also been in contact with Georges, the farmer that was witness to tha crash and has the parachute fragment.

I have a large archive of facts, figures, documents, names and dates on this crew and a/c - Well, almost! I know virtually nothing of Sgt BROWN one of the gunners. If anyone can help me locate him or his family I would be very appreciative.

regards

paul

 

Message to Alex Campbell, Skipper of Lancaster LL692 A2 C

FYI Alex:
I have added a link to this wonderful thread at the database record for this loss report now located at: http://lostaircraft.com/
(Thankfully a 100% Editable Wiki Now.)

Direct url to the loss record: http://lostaircraft.com/database.php?e=12753&mode=viewentry#

However I note that it records the aircraft as: Serial Number: LL692 Identifier: JI-C2
while your sig notes LL692 A2 C

Is this a discrepancy in the file that needs to be corrected?
Anything else noteworthy there that you would like to change or make additions to?

 

A2 C is the correct code. The archive is the wrong one . Alex has confirmed this matter first hand earlier in this thread. We wanted to be certain about this detail when Christian drew his Lancaster ,so it's no longer a mystery.

 

Done.

The database record for LL692 A2-C has been so amended. See: http://lostaircraft.com/database.php?mode=viewentry&e=12753

_______________

PS:
91,826 views to date, yet STILL only 2 (Two, count 'em!) 5 Star Votes for this thread. Sheesh guys and gals! Get on the ball eh?

 

Skipper: A few questions for you if you are able...

1. Did LL692 A2-C have a "Nickname" we could enter into to the record file?

- I tried to plough through all these 34 pages of posts but to no avail to date! Tnx!

2. "Date of LL692 A2-C joining No.514 Sqdn is obscure."
Can you confirm or deny that LL692 A2-C arrived at 514 Squadron on or about their "best guess" date of 25 July 1944? Only four days or so before your crash?

3. "No accounting for the period 25 March 1944 - 28 July 1944"
Do you have any idea of what LL692 was doing throughout May, June and July of 1944? Repairs? Refitting? As a Training / Conversion School Airplane? etc...

4. "No record of total hours."
Do you have some recollection of how many hours airtime LL692 A2-C had with 514 Squadron?
How many hours it likely had with No.115 Sqdn from its arrival there to them on 28 Dec 1943 until its arrival to you at Waterbeach?

Any questions you are able to answer can be put into this loss record.

Much appreciated Alex, especially for all the joy you have provided us, one and all with and in this exceptionally rewarding thread.
Yours: Fred Wilson, Vernon BC Canada.
_______________________

From: http://lostaircraft.com/database.php?lang=en&mode=viewentry&e=12753#
"This aircraft was one of 450 Lancasters ordered from Armstrong Whitworth Aircraft Apr42 and built as 100 Mk.11s with Hercules XV1 engines,
delivered from Oct43 to Mar44, and 350 Mk.1s with Merlin 24 engines initially installed and delivered from Nov43 to Aug44.
LL692 was a Mk.11 and was delivered to No.115 Sqdn 28Dec43, joining No.514 Sqdn 25Jul44.

Took part in the following key Operations: With No.115 Sqdn as KO- F, Berlin 2/3Jan44; Berlin 15/16Feb44; Berlin 24/25Mar44; With No.514 Sqdn "as JI-C2," Stuttgart 28/29Jul44-Lost.

No accounting for the period 25Mar44-28Jul44

Date of joining No.514 Sqdn is obscure. However, LL692 was lost by No.514 on this date. No record of total hours.

LL692 was one of three No.514 Sqdn Lancasters lost on this operation. See: DS813; LM206."

 

Hi Fred, Alex and Wayne will confirm this better than I can, but from my knowledge there was no nickname for A2-C .

As to the four days I have no confirmation, but it could explain the confusion between the two call codes (they had been res-assigned for 514 Sqn , but were not updated in all records yet. The arrival date matching the operation date led to this conclusion also. Finally the fact that a there was a second Dickie re-enforces the new assignment theory. (Bob Giffins was exceptionnally assigned as the eigth man) .

I'm a bit puzzled about the Hercules engines. I don't think these were replaced with Merlin ones. We have discussed this earlier with Alex and this led to the drawing of the Lanc with Hercules engines as late as July 1944. See Alex's signature.

see the poster here on the author's site (he is a friend)

http://chdiep.wix.com/la-memoire-des/welcome#!__peintures-de-guerre/r-a-f

 

Tnx Skipper. You are are a resource par excellence!

And Skipper, feel free to dive into this LostAircraft.com Loss Report upgrade.
See: http://lostaircraft.com/database.php?lang=en&mode=viewentry&e=12753

 

RAF 514 Squadron Website: http://www.514squadron.co.uk/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/514SquadronRaf

514 Squadron Motto: "Nil obstare potest" ("Nothing can withstand").
Badge: A cloud pierced by a sword.
The design indicates the function of the squadron,
i.e. its role of a GH-equipped blind-bombing squadron.
Authority: King George VI, August 1944.





Nice image here, with an earlier "Royal" Red, (Correct Alex?) but cut off.
I am looking for a top notch replacement. Can anyone here help?

 

Posted in the hopes this brings back some fond memories, Alex! Nice local by the looks of it!

You must know this view like the back of your hand!

From Aircrew Remembered at: http://www.aircrewremembered.com/raf1944/5/shearingedward.html

514 Squadron Waterbeach 1944 (courtesy I.W.M.)
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . :wub:

 

You are most welcome Fred, I will post more pictures from Freteval next Spring. I'm planning to go there.

 

If I were you I would be delaying my trip to time to see both Lancasters in flight. Any thoughts?
http://www.warplane....14-uk-tour.aspx

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/news/canada-s-lancaster-bomber-to-cross-atlantic-for-u-k-tour-1.2546757

Anyone else planning on going?

We could turn it into a ww2f.com event. A first Reunion...

 

That is great news Fred. I was unaware of the upcoming plans to fly the Atlantic and visit dear old England.
Pretty sure I've mentioned that while at "Dehav" I worked on that Lanc, FM 213 carrying out mods
for Coastal Command service.
We are hoping to send one or two of our grandchildren to the Freteval celebrations this summer. It is
unlikely that Hazel or I will be going. However we certainly hope you and Skipper manage to make it.
Good luck all Alex Campbell Skipper of Lancaster A2 C

 

Fred Wilson asked in an earlier post: "Did LL692 A2-C have a "Nickname" we could enter into the record file?"

Talked to Dad last night, apparently there was a nickname for A2-C:

" We had just been authorized by our CO to have the King's aircraft decorated with a name.
When in Glasgow we were treated so generously by Miller Gordon and his staff in the Adelphi Hotel. Sam and others came up with a name for our ship in honour of our visit. We settled on the "Adelphi Queen". This old hotel at Union and Argyle streets burned down after the war. " EAC

 

Wow this is good news Wayne. I believe you had actually mentioned that earlier. Too bad it was too early to have nose art painted on the Lancaster. That would have been even better.

 

Loss Record updated. Thanks.
See: http://lostaircraft.com/database.php?mode=viewentry&e=12753

EAC: Can Alex answer my other questions?

Also: At: http://lostaircraft.com/database.php?mode=viewhistory&e=12753&changeset_id=9
I just noticed: "Crash Position on map is not set yet."

Who knows. If we can get a close approximation it may be possible to find parts of the aircraft, even at this late a date...

 

Info on Lancaster FM 213 at: http://www.bombercommandmuseum.ca/s,ronjenkins.html

Alex, I have to wonder if they know this! You might get one heck of a tour of the old bird!

If not, they do now. I just emailed the Curator at the Bomber Command Museum of Canada:
http://www.bombercommandmuseum.ca/contact.html

Hope you don't mind! They are likely going to want to drain your brain of every molecule of information you can provide! :whip:

Cheers Fred Wilson, Vernon BC Canada.

 

Fred,

Regarding the crash site for A2-C, somewhere on this forum Skipper has a map showing the crash site. We do have some artifacts from the aircraft, the aircraft went down very close to Morreneville.

In late summer of 2012 my brother and sisters travelled to France to meet members of the community around St. Cloud and Morreneville. The landscape is mostly unchanged from 1944. They visited the crash site, and met those who helped Dad evade capture.

My brother returned with the rip cord from Dad's parachute, it had been recovered from the field close to Morreneville.

There are a series of images with captions here:

http://hilaroad.com/France-2012/

Wayne