Lest We Forget - Leyte Gulf

I think it's more like too much unrealistic CGI. That what ticks me off about some newer war movies. They load it up with special effects because they CAN, not because they should. Sometimes in the form of waaay too many aircraft in the movie frame, then there would have actually been, ships too close together, etc.

 

I'm currently reading "the battle of Leyte gulf", by Thomas J. Cutler. great book.

 

I just read Battle of Surigao Strait by Tully and defintily recomend it. As with Shattered Sword extensive use of Japanese records leads to some rather new and interesting insights at least for English language readers.

Here's the Amazon url ( I got mine through Barnes and Noble and may have payed less than Amazon)
Amazon.com: surigao strait: Books

 

I was just reading Hornfischers's Last Stand of the Tin Can Sailors and came across this:

"At 6:35 A.M., as sunrise revealed a grayed-out and hazy dawn, the most powerful concentration of naval gun power the Japanese empire had ever assembled reordered its geometry in preparation for daylight operations"

Now THAT is a very ominous description of what the men in Taffy 3 were about to be face with:

4 Battleships.
6 Heavy Cruisers.
2 Light cruisers.
11 destroyers.

The Yamato alone displace more tonnage than all ships in Taffy 3 combined.

tom

 

Kurita's fleet was already damaged from the previous days air attacks from american aircraft! Had Halsey had the Iowa class battleships blocking the straights it would have been target pratice. Now against the Yamato would have been interesting duel! Ozawa's carriers was a lil more than iron coffins, they where litterly no threat to Leyte m but Halsey was so 1 minded on sinking enemy carriers. But yes had Halsey guarded the straights I do think the Jappanese fleet would have been destroyed in detail at Leyte!

 

Kurita's fleet was not as damaged as one would think, despite the wildly exaggerated claims of the Third Fleet's aviators. Nagato, Yamato, and Tone all took hits in the Sibuyan Sea. Nagato even had her #4 Turret disabled and a number of secondaries, but would preform no worse than any other heavy the next day. Tone arguably had the best performance of any cruiser during the battle.

It's unclear what would have transpired had Halsey left TF38 to guard San Bernardino Straight. The first message sent by Halsey had the task force consisting of 4 BB, 2 CA, 3 CL and 14 DD. A force numerically superior, but smaller in tonnage. I am certain that nothing like what happened to the south in Surigao Straight would have happened here. I do not believe Halsey would have been patient enough to let the Japanese sail into a trap, and sprung it too early. Though that is a topic for the WI section.

It's easy to say that with hindsight in mind. It is true that the US had known that the Japanese were running out of pilots, but the extent of which was seriously underestimated. Had Ozawa's carriers had a full compliment of planes and good pilots, he could have constituted a very serious threat to any fleet. It is never a good idea to underestimate your enemy. Especially when one considers that just a single plane resulted in the sinking of the Princeton, and sever damage to Birmingham (caused by explosions within Princeton while alongside) on the 24th.

Halsey did have an obsession with sinking enemy carriers. Many carrier commanders of WWII would admit the same thing. Carriers had spent the previous three years proving without a doubt that they were now king of the sea's. It is only natural that as a result they would become the highest priority target. What Halsey was obsessed with was participating in a gunnery action. Just when it was within reach, it was snatched away.

 

Halsey could have left behind a TG made up of two or three fleet carriers and a few of the slower BB's in order to provide cover for the transports.

 

It would have been Lee making the calls rather than Halsey. Almost assuredly they would have opened fire sooner. The DDs wouldn't have been in position like they were to the South so it would probably have started with battleships gunfire.

 

syscom3,

The transports had the escort carriers for protection and the CVEs had enough planes to equal 4 fast carriers. Halsey also had no "slow" BBs to give, they were all with Oldendorf.


LWD,
With regards to Admiral Lee making the calls, I don't think there would have been a night action.

Remember the Battle of the Philippine Sea? When Mitscher asked Lee if he desired a night action, Lee responded "Do not, repeat not, believe we should seek night engagement." Lee's reasoning was that his advantage with radar was more than offset by the difficulties in communications and a lack of fleet training in night actions. The use of the fast battleships as floating AA batteries for the carriers had taken its toll. However, he would be more than happy to pursue cripples from a carrier engagement and sinkn them.

Now, if Lee was reluctant to seek a night action when he had numerical superiority in battleships, why would he do so when the odds were even? The again, at the Philippine Sea he was under Spruance, and at Leyte he was under Halsey.

 

Even with the change in distribution of forces I don't see the US detecting the Japanese in time to set up a night engagement.

However he had been working on this extensively in the mean time. But as I said above I don't think a night engagement would be likely. He probably would have posted picket DDs in the straits but I don't think they would have spotted the Japanese in time for a night engagement.

I think by then he was much more confident of the capabilities of his ships, crews, and officers. There's also the difference between being in a situation where it was optional and one where it wasn't.

 

The Iowa class BB's were the only true fast BB's, in that they could make 30+ knots and keep up with the carriers.

The two North Carolina and four South Dakota class BB's could only make 27 knots top speed, thus were "slower". Those six BB's is what I was referring too.

I was defiantly not referring to the old BB's that Oldendorf had.

 

They are all traditionally refered to as "fast battleships". There was a plan to leave a force that included some of them behind. Obviously it was not implemented mostly because they were pretty sure that Kurita had turned back.