Discussion in 'North Africa and the Mediterranean' started by izi, Sep 26, 2007.
Is there a German version of what we call 'The National Archives'?
Sorry, Bad day,
If there is, does anyone know where,
or are their archives split into diffrent departments in diffrent places ?
From info from WAST & Bundesarchiv it seems that they both agree that a LOT of documentation was destroyed at the end of the war, if so, why would records of Kriegsmarine personnel be destroyed,
Just a little off topic,
you will see I have added a picture on my signature, have a look at this site, go to forum then gallery. Fantastic.
UK 1/6 Collectors Club.
Thanks to Francesco for allowing me to use his pictures.
Izi, I once used the National archives but I was in the AIR14 section for lost aircrafts, so I will have to look to find the pows archives.
Erich, I will go back to the Speyer area , just don't know when. I have a request to get some pictures at LUDWIGSHAFEN , so I'll soon or late drive through Speyer and the Bergstrasse area.
Skipper thank you Hans Baer is buried at the main Freidhof, and I believe his death was December 31, 1943
izi the 22 MarinebordFlak Abt. was most likely a shoreline defense mechanism armed with 88 or 105mm's not on Aux ships, as there was a difference in Marine and the KM aboard shipping arming light and heavy flak. although you have a pic with the KM talley and he is wearing the dark blue KM dress wear he wore in most probability the typical field grey four pocket tunic and pants, steel helmet with marine type insignia and the Flak Abt. cypher on his epalettes
Erich, I have looked at this site,
www.wwiidaybyday.com and have seen the "Fieldgrey Uniform" in the uniforms section, is this the one you believe he would have worn?
if so, is he wearing the blue one in the photo as it was "dress wear" and obviously kept for best.
the blue uniform was for all KM personell regardless of service entry and even duty. the uniform to be worn as per marine was the field grey. a close friend locally served in the defense of Kiel for several years in a 8.8cm flak batterie and he wore the field grey while dutied with the Flak piece he then was absorbed into a marine feld division in Finland with some of the bloodiest fighting with the Soviets.
in his photo collection he shown wearing the KM blues early on and then when stationed to flak and in the Feld unit he is wearing the field grey sporting his EK 2 and his Flak badge.
hope this makes some sense to you
Just a coincidence I know, but Hans Baer deceased the very same day Izi's father was captured... I hav ethe name pinned and will take a picture when (or if) I go back to Speyer.
Many thanks Erich, your link, chronik seekrieg 1939-1945, led me to Jurgen Rohwer who has given me this today,
thank you for your e-mail! Meantime I could look into the War Diary of the 'Seekriegsleitung'. There are from 20-22.12.43 several entries about the stranding and the destruction of the 'Niobe' and it's clear that there were no prisoners from the crew. There were 19 deads and 15 havily wounded. the rest of the crew was transferred by a tug back to Pola.
But on 1.1.44 there is an entry: 'Bei Bombenangriff auf Zara am 31.12.43 sind G 101 und G 105 schwer beschädigt und gesunken. G 107 ist unbeschädigt. Unter den Gefallenen bzw. Vermißten befindet sich Kommandeur der 22. MBFA.'
G 101 was a small old vessel 'Nazario Sauro', the leading vessel of the 1.Geleitflottille.G 105 was a German 'Marine F#ähr Prahm 'F 149'. G-107 was a former Yacht and experimeental vessel of the Italien Navy 'Elettra'.
I assume that your father was aboard of G 101 or G 105 G 101 was according to Gröner: Deutsche Kriegschiffe, vol.8, sunk on 26.12.43 at Zara during coaling with
G 107 when on 15.30 h during an air attack the vessel was hit and sunk, 10 dead.
There is no mention about the fate of the rest of the crew. The sinking of G 105 ex
F 149 ist not mentioned in Gröner, vol.7, but probably it was sunk during the same day. G 107 ran according to Gröner on 21.1.44 northwest of Zara on ground and was on he next day hit by two bombs during an air attack. It was later salvaged and sent by Tito as a present to the Italian government.
I think from these dates that the attack, which sank G 101 and G 105 was as the war diary 'Skl' mentioned on 31 12. an d that aboard these vessels were members of the 22 Marine Bord Flak Abteilung'. Possibly was your father with the people who are listed as 'vermißt', most pof which may be prisoners probably of Tito partisan troops.
So I have another path to look down.
Still trying to find out about Allied special forces, will keep all informed.
Sorry for my ignorance but who was Hans Baer ?
He was Erich's cousin and was a nightfigher pilot. Nothing to do with your father but I noticed the war ended for them on the very same date.
Regarding your father. If he was captured after an air raid, he also could have picked up directly on the water by a British patrol. The British obvioulsly knew where the boats were sunk and his position could have been signaled by the aircrews.
Not been on for a while but think I may have finally got somewhere.
Through everyones help it has come to light that I have relations in Germany who knew my father, the WASt have supplied more information and have recieved a roll of microfilm from NARA that covers the specific unit and dates that my father served. So I have booked an afternoon at the library to sit and scour said microfilm and hopefully get the answers I have longed for.
Will keep updating as and when.
Many thanks for all help given.
All right Izi. This is talking! Please keep us informed. Your story is quite interesting.
I suscribed all your words, Skipper67.
excellent Izi, please keep all of us informed and very glad Jurgen answered your call with some informations.
Skipper forget about looking for my night fighter cousins remains, his were removed as several of the graves in Speyer as I heard this several days ago from my night fighter ace friend Herr Spoden who was there recently on a day/night fighter get together. where Hans is now ........ I have no idea, my relatives in the east side of Germany are all gone
The microfilm supplied by NARA has no relevant info on it regarding my father's unit, so I will try them again.
If anyone is interested in Kompanies 5. 6. 7. 20. 242. of the Marinebordflak then please let me know as I have this microfilm going spare.
Does anyone know of any detailed books that may cover this subject?
Once again thanks for al help.
I am very interested Izi as I am still trying tom find the exact Flak unit my friend in the KM was in at Kiel and then later on the Ost front. not that the film would mention it but still it would give some idea of the information held in
write me a private if you would please
Forgot to say I have found my Father's I.D. No.
It is 0.59711/42
Is there any way of using this to refine my searches?
The I.d. number is quite a find actually. You can know try the archives again with some precise information. I believe nara has personnal files for most German soldiers based on names and /or ID numbers.