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Military Archaeology

Discussion in 'Military History' started by GRW, Jan 4, 2004.

  1. GRW

    GRW Pillboxologist WW2|ORG Editor

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    Been waiting over a fortnight to see this story in a news source that wasn't behind a paywall.
    They've finally found the entrance to the Winterberg tunnel complex near Craonne, France, where 200 German soldiers were buried alive in WW1.
    "Not since the 1970s has there been such an important discovery from the Great War in France. In woods on a ridge not far from the city of Reims, the bodies of more than 270 German soldiers have lain for more than a century - after they died the most agonising deaths imaginable.
    Forgotten in the confusion of war, their exact location was till now a mystery - one which the French and German authorities were in no hurry to elucidate. But thanks to the work of a father-and-son team of local historians, the entrance to the Winterberg tunnel on the Chemin des Dames battlefront has been found."
    www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-56370510
     
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  2. CAC

    CAC Ace of Spades

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    An interesting and thought provoking article...i'm a little torn as to what I should think. Im not sure they had "the most agonising death imaginable"...I think being bitten by a blue ringed octopus has that accolade.
    [​IMG]
    Australian of course!
    As a said this article leaves me a little perplexed as to what to think...what are your thoughts Gordon?
     
  3. GRW

    GRW Pillboxologist WW2|ORG Editor

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    Oh jeez, not sure m8.
    Part of me says excavate and give these guys a final resting place, the other part says leave them be and build a memorial, like the "trench of death" at Verdun.
    Trouble with excavation is it's liable to turn into a major civil engineering project, given how deep they lie. Plus they don't know what kind of ordnance is down there or what state it's in, and probably Methane pockets too.
    I can understand the Germans' reluctance to dig, but can't imagine the British or Americans not digging in a similar situation.
    One thing is sure, they need security to stop treasure hunters burrowing in while the authorities are deciding.
     
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  4. GRW

    GRW Pillboxologist WW2|ORG Editor

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    And another story from the American Revolution, this time they've identified the location of the Beaufort battlefield in S. Carolina.
    "BEAUFORT — The first big battle of the Revolutionary War between Southern Patriots and British naval forces preserved Fort Sullivan thanks to the strategic use of palmetto tree trunks filled with sand that neutralized the king’s cannonballs.
    The British had hoped to quell the Colonial uprising by seizing control of major coastal cities, but Col. William Moultrie’s successful command of his 400 fighters resulted in heavy damage to the warships at Charleston Harbor’s entrance, causing the fleet to retreat.
    It would be nearly three years before the British tried again in the South. They were determined to take Charleston but by a less direct path.
    That second attempt would succeed but not before an important land battle — the Battle of Beaufort at Port Royal Island — pitted British forces against their old nemesis, Col. Moultrie. This was the first serious land battle of the war in South Carolina and its first American victory.
    Recent fieldwork led by Daniel Battle of the S.C. American Revolution Preservation Alliance has enabled the archaeologist to determine the exact site of the fight, prompting the S.C. Battleground Preservation Trust to secure a portion of the property for future historic interpretation and inclusion in its “Liberty Trail” project."
    www.postandcourier.com/news/local_state_news/1779-revolutionary-war-battle-site-found-near-beaufort-secured-for-history/article_a9dbc08a-7aae-11eb-ae01-9396cffdbd9e.html
     
  5. CAC

    CAC Ace of Spades

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    Interesting...would this be where the Poms got the "Beaufort" name for this aircraft?
    [​IMG]
     
  6. GRW

    GRW Pillboxologist WW2|ORG Editor

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  7. CAC

    CAC Ace of Spades

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    Oh...thought I was onto something there... : (Slinks away)
     
  8. GRW

    GRW Pillboxologist WW2|ORG Editor

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    Wonder if there's anything in it?
    "A film canister from the WWII era has been found in Lubań, Lower Silesia. The metal container is practically intact and, according to a local museum, hides an old film reel. Is there a film recorded on it, or more importantly, can it be played? These questions are to be answered real soon.
    "This thing I'm holding, it's not a shield. It's a film reel in an intact canister from the WWII-era" - the Regional Museum in Lubań wrote in a Facebook post. The canister was found on April 17, during archeological exploration at Piramowicza street.
    What could possibly be hidden inside is still a mystery. Experts have been asked to help find out. "We've sent it to Filmoteka in Warsaw for an expertise. We didn't open the canister, so as not to damage its contents. Therefore, we don't know what's on the tape" - director of the Regional Museum in Lubań Łukasz Tekiela told TVN24."
    "It's not a shield I'm holding". Mysterious WWII-era finding
     
  9. GRW

    GRW Pillboxologist WW2|ORG Editor

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    *Bump* for an update.
    Translation of the latest news.
    'Spectacular find at the Winterberg tunnel
    Important findings from the Franco-German exploration in the Craonne forest

    04/28/2021

    What at first glance looks like a colorful gathering of uniformed men in the forest below the Plateau de Californie is actually a highly concentrated and precisely planned exploration: Experts from the Volksbund and its partner organization ONAC, the French archaeological authority DRAC and professional trackers from the Georadar company are currently involved to find out the truth about the Winterberg Tunnel near the French town of Craonne (northwest of Reims). The trackers are supported by soldiers of the French army and the German armed forces, the local gendarmerie, fire brigade, paramedics, the ordnance disposal service and many volunteers.

    "After unauthorized excavations have already taken place here, we and our French partners are forced to get a very precise picture of the situation," says Arne Schrader. The head of the burial service department of the Volksbund Deutsche Kriegsgräberfürsorge coordinates the technical work on the Chemin des Dames, where German and French troops fought a loss-making trench war in the First World War.

    After the team had already encountered the tracks of a field railway during excavations on Wednesday morning, which seem to lead deep into the Winterberg, Schrader announced another spectacular find in the afternoon: "A uniform coat of the 111th Reserve Infantry Regiment!" that the documents about the dead of the Baden regiment are correct. The dig can go on.


    There is also an alarm bell in the ground
    The search started in the morning with a joint commemoration of the up to 250 dead German soldiers who are suspected to be in the tunnel, but also of the many French who were killed in this mountainous forest on Chemin des Dames. Among the photos that reminded of the dead in front of the presumed tunnel entrance were not only pictures of Germans, but also those of Laurent Michalot, who died at the age of 33 on April 19, 1917 in fighting nearby.

    As early as midday, the technical project manager presented exciting finds behind the mighty piles of sand that excavators had piled up on the steep slope: remains of a German soldier's helmet, a bayonet, grenades, angles to stabilize wooden cladding, an alarm bell, as they were common at tunnel entrances. However, the search had to be interrupted again and again because of several finds of ammunition remains.




    [​IMG]
    Filming on Wednesday at the probing.© Uwe Zucchi

    Reports from ZDF and "France 3"
    After numerous German and French media and the British BBC had reported on the search in the Winterberg Tunnel in advance, a ZDF team led by Paris correspondent Thomas Walde and the French broadcaster “France 3” used the sounding as an opportunity for reports on Wednesday.

    During the site inspection it became clear that the search for the mortal remains of the German regiment is far more time-consuming than originally assumed. Sand and stone have to be removed in layers and remains of ammunition have to be secured. The specialists quickly rejected the idea of entering the cavities in the mountain identified by georadar: too dangerous!


    Further action still open
    The search on Winterberg will continue until the weekend. The areas examined are then well secured again. Because further unauthorized excavations are to be prevented in the area well secured by the gendarmerie and with video surveillance. Only then will the Volksbund and its French partners ONAC, DRAC and the forest authority ONF decide how to proceed with the Winterberg tunnel.

    You will find the ZDF report shortly in the ZDF media library.

    Text: Harald John
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]"
    www.volksbund.de/nachrichten/spektakulaerer-fund-am-winterberg-tunnel?fbclid=IwAR1IPVC_Qkcqab0OHlR2gA92j-JRBRw-jKQR1-k-e8sSNyLSIyCFM85w_e4
     
  10. OpanaPointer

    OpanaPointer I Point at Opana Staff Member Patron   WW2|ORG Editor

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    Put a video about battlefield archeology over in "Military Youtubes", few days ago.
     
  11. GRW

    GRW Pillboxologist WW2|ORG Editor

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    Yeah, saw that. Quite interesting.
     
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  12. GRW

    GRW Pillboxologist WW2|ORG Editor

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    Now this is what you call determination!
    "A Second World War amphibious vehicle that was buried 30 feet beneath the Cambridgeshire Fens has been excavated by a team of volunteers.
    The 26ft-long LVT-4 tank, which was one of 16 brought in to act as a flood defence in the village of Crowland, during the 1947 floods, was uncovered by residents who spent five days digging the lands beneath the Cambridgeshire Fens.
    The Buffalo military tank, which weighs 20 tons, had been underground for 74 years but appears to be well-preserved because it was buried in a mixture of peat and clay.
    Daniel Abbott, chairman of Crowland Buffalo LVT, said his team had to carry out 'a lot of digging by hand' as well as using a machine from the North Level Drainage Board in order to uncover the vehicle.
    He said the tank will soon be winched out of the deep hole in order for it to be assessed by experts.
    Mr Abbott said: 'I've always wanted to get one of the tanks out before the 75th anniversary of the floods and we started planning this a couple of years ago.
    'I'm over the moon with what we've achieved, it's very exciting.
    'We've spent five days digging and we're nearly there. We've had to do a lot of digging by hand, as well as using a machine from the North Level Drainage Board.
    'We found the gun mount first and it's in fantastic condition for its age. The tank seems to have been well preserved in the clay."
    www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9525535/Volunteers-spend-five-days-digging-perfectly-preserved-WW2-amphibious-vehicle.html
     
  13. CAC

    CAC Ace of Spades

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    Cool...she aint no tank though...
     
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  14. OpanaPointer

    OpanaPointer I Point at Opana Staff Member Patron   WW2|ORG Editor

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    Very. Amphibious truck.
     
  15. GRW

    GRW Pillboxologist WW2|ORG Editor

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    Yeah, modern consensus seems to be if it's steel, military, and has tracks- it's a "tank".
     
  16. OpanaPointer

    OpanaPointer I Point at Opana Staff Member Patron   WW2|ORG Editor

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    Only if you're a politician or an amateur. For a time I was the owner of an M113, basket case but all there. Last month I signed it over to another idiot. Never called it a tank.
     
  17. GRW

    GRW Pillboxologist WW2|ORG Editor

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  18. GRW

    GRW Pillboxologist WW2|ORG Editor

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  19. Poppy

    Poppy grasshopper

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  20. GRW

    GRW Pillboxologist WW2|ORG Editor

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