Discussion in 'Military History' started by Totenkopf, Dec 11, 2008.
The night of sorrows: La Noche Triste - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I disagree. Tet was perceived as a victory by the American forces in the field. They were astonished and angry that it was reported as a defeat by journalists at home who had no idea what had happened. In any case, there was no humiliation engendered by the battle as the American forces had performed exceedingly well after an initial setback due to poor intelligence. It was poor journalistic understanding of military matters and the inability of the Johnson Administration to justify it's war policy in Viet Nam that caused Tet to have the impact that it did, not humiliation.
I would certainly rank Cannae as one of the most humiliating defeats: the elite Roman army trashed by Hannibal and his force half the size. Also Alesia, Julius Caesar defeated way more than 2 to 1 odds and fought off the supposed million strong army assembling under Vercingetorix.
And, not militarily, by at the Battle of Actium, Marc Anthony had the upper hand, but he ditched his forces to lose the power over the Roman Empire. I think that's pretty humiliating.
Other battles such as Teutoburg, Hastings, Hattin, Courtrai, Bannockburn, Crecy, Agincourt, Rocroi, Leuthen, and Trenton are all battles that involve beating huge odds, but I couldn't rank them properly without doing dishonor to any of them.
The Battle of Trafalgar
Not a battle but a huge shame:
Spanish Armada - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
both a shame and a battle and it deserves to be added on the list.
Another Battle : Austerlitz Battle of Austerlitz - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Austerlitz was a great Humiliation for both Tsar Alexander 1 and Austria Hungary. This also led to the destruction against the third coalition and was the end of the Holy Roman Empire as a nation.
I would go for : the battle of France : the French army rolled over in 45 days, with an average of more or less 2.500 KIA each day (comparable to the allied KIA on the D-day).
Well since most had been mentioned, ill go with Kiev. Not the best of times for the Red Army.
Battle of Alesia, Caesar´s great victory!
Battle of Alesia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I would for sure say that the "Horns of Hattin" might be the most humiliating defeat for Crusader Jerusalem as the Mighty Crusader army had willingly walked into a Geographical nightmare and had been utterly destoryed by Saladin. Only 12% of the Christians had survived that day
Good one Totenkopf, the loss of Jerusalem was a real earthquake in the west.
I don't know if this wa sentionned but the loss off Byzance (in 1467 if I'm correct) was an equivalent shock
Stamford bridge..........We're going back a bit here aren'y we...
What about Midway which was a quite an humiliation for the Japanese?
The Battle of Little Big Horn was nothing for the US Army to be proud about, but if you want a near complete and total humiliation, the Battle of the Wabash certainly takes a large piece of the cake. It was proportionally, the worst defeat ever suffered by the US military. This site is close to my home, only 30 minutes away by car.
Battle of the Wabash - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Good grief, Urgh!
Well, if we're going back before the Conquest- Nechtansmere (Dunnichen) in 685.
The Bernician king Egfrith attempted to expand Saxon influence north of the Forth Estuary, and saw his army massacred at Dunnichen in Perthshire by his half-brother Brudei, king of the southern Picts.
The Saxons never again attempted to move out of the Lothians, and remained there until the fall of the kingdom of Northumbria after the Conquest. The population of Lothian weren't considered "Scottish" until well into the 13th century.
Pictavia - Battle of Dunnichen
This one definitely gets a salute. I am well-read, intelligent, and educated. I have multiple degrees, including one in history, and I have read history books since I was weaned. Nevertheless, I have never heard of Nechtansmere, "Bernician," King Egfrith, DUnnichen or Brudei! And I have never heard of anything momentous happening in 685, either!
What , weren't you there in 685? I didn't expect you to be so young
We have castles DG..........
Stamford Bridge....no not Chelsea football ground....brief not so historical explanation.
Those pesky viking chappies were given a good once over by the good ole Harold of arrow in the eye fame and his trusty curls...(sp) no not fries...
Vikings got together with Harolds brother after a fallout of Harold and his lusty, and blood lusty brother...Sailed over from Norway...parked all their boats in Shetlands, then a major parking area for Viking day trippers and owned or managed by Vikings themselves.
Tostag (sp) Harolds bro...had been naughty with the locals up north mostly around York etc...Yorks told Harold, its him or us mate...and Harold chose them...good choice at the time...as Tostag was a bit of a rotter...so I believe.
Vikinkgs landed...sacked York...as was their want in those days, and had been sacking us Brits for years before....now its just bankers sacking us Brits...but anyway I digress..
They sacked the place...as they usually did on their day trips...whole army of em this time...Then went back to boats for party and wine and ravage and songs sort of thing.
Told the elders of York, we'll be back in the morning....leave some hostages and food and drop more of the local mead out for us will you, or we will do some more sacking and no redundancy notices matey.....
So back they came...sunny day for the time of year...so left off their chain mail and heavy armoured stuff....bit hot for swords and axe's lads...just take the little shields and tin hats...oh..ok...few spears..
Blimey it aint half hot Tostig...is it always like this round here...No...think its that global warming Vicky...he called the Vikings Vicky...it was his Brit way of thinking he was using them rather than the naughty vikings using him...
Got to river...crossed...blimey...there's a lot of hostages aint there Steffan of Wold...yep mate...hang on though...whos that lot over there....blimey...theres thousands of em...and they aint looking very friendly....
Thats where that old Brit saying comes from, heared many more times in British army history....but first heard from Viking lips at Stamford Bridge....Head for the boats...blimey...whats their problem Steffan of Wold....? Steffan...oi..hang on wait for me..
Tostag rides out....loook bruv its all a mistake, can we talk....we can says Harold...not sure about your Viking mates though...oh come on Harold were brothers and all that...give us a break mate....ok...look...you I can probably get away with bringing back on board...persuade my fellow Brits your all right really, but Im not sure about your viking mate and his coach trip buddies...theres too many of em...thousands...a whole blinking army youve brought over bruv....this has to stop...No more Viking raids...and definately no Viking armies....Well Tostag...mad, bad, but still got a little honour...says...look Bruv Harold...just give em a bit of land and they will go away and maybe not come back for years....Harold to Tostag...bruv...go tell em....they can have some British land...7foot each...whoa......bit harsh that one Harold...right Im off to my mates the Vikings...go then...and die Tostag....cheers bruv...
Charge says Harold...Vikings still running...form defence...shields and hedgehog thing...sticking spears out...Brits..do same...tired after march...some fall asleep in hedgehog...rest batter lightly armed vikings back to bridge...massacre...One viking big chappie...big axe...kills at least 40 brits so its said on bridge while Vikings run for beaches...a thing we Brits saw and thought...good one that...must remember how to do that one...then from under bridge...crafty curl...in a barrel so its said....roll out the barrel, we'll have the barrel tonight...think thats where song originates...but I digress...came up under bridge...spear through slats...Mad Eric or whatever his name was falls...Harlods lads storm across bridge....away the lads....your going to get your flipping eads kicked in....which is where many a future football chant originated...
Vikings got to boats...24 or so out of few hundred legged it...Not going back there...bit rough that lot....better build some forts of our own....
End of Viking raids...no more Vikings coming over here...instead in future years..roles reversed...Brit football fans storm Scandinavian forts or stadiums as they are known...
Tostag dead...Vicky dead...Eric Dead...Steffan took off chain mail and mingled...his family are still firmly entrenched in England...heard something about one of his long long down the ages relatives joining the calvalry even now....
Vicky got his 7 foot of British soil.
Harold, shot off south...Willie of Normandy on the beaches...tanning himself thinking I like it here...Im going to buile a timeshare....
Harold...should have stopped, thought a bit...listened to his other bruvs and relatives....You go form a bigger army...come back next season...We will go south...surround em on beach area..starve em out...you come up with rest of country...pick up the bones....
But Harold was a bit of a religious geezer...they all were back then apparantly...Got a message...Willie was flying the flage of the holy Roman Empire...the pope was with Willie....Harold...was gobsmacked...later to be eyesmacked but thats another story...
All or nothing...I place my fate in the hands of God...blinking pope...whats he getting involved for....whats this a crusade? We havent invented holy Jihad wars yet and hes given Willie his flag...Got to lay this down at the lords door...finish it once and for all...fate in Gods hands and all that....Silly buggers....Should have converted to Protenstintism a few hundred years early....Willie would have been slaughtered...
I rest my case...Battle of Stamford Bridge....Viking army...massive by their own standards....marched off for day in sunny countryside and picnic with no weapons of note or armour protection...pretty embarrasing when faced by thousands of Brit troops coming over the hill when you were not expecting them....Oh flip....wheres the boats...
A quick infill; The Saxon kingdom of Northumbria was divided into two sub-kingdoms- Bernicia in the north, centred on Bamburgh Castle, and Deira which ran as far south as the Humber estuary, with modern-day Catterick being the seat of power.
Kings of Bernicia were usually also kings of Northumbria, except when they died without issue, which meant that kings of Deira could occupy the throne until a suitable Bernician heir was available to succeed them.
Andrew Jackson Defeats "Red Stick" Creek Indians at Battle of Horseshoe Bend, Alabama, 27 March 1814
The battle raged for about five hours. Roughly 550 Red Sticks were killed on the field
American's killed 47 killed.