My Lai massacre

bosworth - Grieg has a point, you do seem to be following the guy around and attacking him for defnding America. Back off - attack arguments not people.

 

No one has, to the best of my knowledge, ever defended the My Lai massacre. To blame the entire US Army (or the nation, for that matter) for this incident is, IMHO, dead wrong. You cannot tar every person in a country or an organization for the actions of an individual or handful of individuals, unless you can show conclusive proof that such actions are a part of the accepted policies of that nation or organization. LT Calley and his men were held accountable for their actions by the Army and the nation, which is how it should be.

 

Ussualy such incidents (My Lai, Haditha, Abu Graib, murder of Iman al-Hams...) are just a symptom of thing that are wrong higher up and of institutionalised problems.

Let's face it, soldiers are dumb rotweillers. They were trained to be that way and they are trained kill and destroy. They have to be held at tight leash (that is why we have Geneva and Hague conventions). If over time smaller infractions of the rules are permitted or ignored sooner or later thay become institutionalised. Add to this institutional racism (Ragheads, gooks, jewish commie bastards, whatever) which is present in every army during wartime (one has to hate the enemy if he want's to kill him) and you have recepie for such incidents. To be honest killing of civilians was justified in same manner as Einzats gruppen of killing noncombattants in anti partisan operations ( Kill them all. Let st. Peter sort them out). Most of those doing the killing thought it was justified and that they did nothing wrong. It happened before My lai and after. AFAIK localy based reporters didn't even report it as it was nothing unussual and finally reporter who was stateside broke the news of this warcrime.
As for lt. Calley and the gang, those who defend their slap on the wrist as punishment enough should know that a lot of soldiers were hanged for far lesser crimes than this.

 

Dumb Rottweilers? TISO, just how many soldiers have you ever gotten to know? You might be amazed at how intelligent they actually are.

 

Heh a lot. I served my time, i'm a reservist and i do work in civilian part of our MoD (my department's offices are in the barracks in the capital - they booted us out of the MoD building :x ). That enough for you

What i ment to say is that lack of discipline and tacit aproval from higher ups is usualy the root couse of such incidents.
Regarding rotweillers. All armies train soldiers to obey the orders and execute them immidiatly, no questions asked and in prescribed manner. What differenciate the various armies is the amount of inciative soldiers are allowed, encouraged... to. Sadly there is a little issue of Geneva and Hague conventions (law of war) which go against everthing the army wants from it's soldiers. Both conventions demand that soldiers disobey unlowfull orders (like killing, torturing, mishandling of POW's civilians in occupied lands...) and some armies consequently don't emphasise their imortance to their troops or even worse, they blatantly break them at high level ( Gitmo, Abu Graib, operation Phoenix...) giving bad example to their own troops. At the end when something like My lai, Abu Graib... couses outrage they blame everything on few low ranking officers and soldiers or rotten apples as they are ussualy reffered to (basicly sacrificial lambs would be more apropriate) who have only vague ideas about law of war ( thanks to their superiors).

 

question

Tiso, would it be too much to ask which army were you in?
always interested in ex squaddies and their Regiments.

 

I served/serving in Slovene army:
when "doing my time":
3.rd independant battalion [1.st infantry company, 3.rd platoon, 3.rd squad ( as LMG gunner)] of 1.st operative command (command of airforce and air defences) and in
command company of 9.th light rocket brigade (as rifleman - guard duty mostly). Rank: private

Now i'm reservist in:
132.nd mountain battalion [ 2.nd mountain company, 2.nd platoon, 3.rd squad (as rifleman/gunner on hand held rocket anti-tank weapon but since we were not yet issued with new equiment )] of 72.nd brigade. Rank: private

Our reservist platoon gallery (go to link "Slike" - there are two sub-galleries):
http://www.iztoknet.com/breznjihnegre/index.php?option=com_expose&Itemid=2

 

Thanks

Thanks TISO, much appreciated, always good to know a little of the background of posters. Will look up your web site, thanks again Friend.
Brian.S711.

 

..kool pics ,tiso ...i didnt notice any of the troops in darth vader ,giant cossak fur hat ,sabre and bandoliers or even a batman type kit ...is "tiso the terrible " actually to be seen in any of these pictures ..the caped crusader, unmasked? ... or .....pehaps like george smileys arch nemesis KARLA always to remain in the shadows ...

 

BWAHAHAHA
On a couple of them. As a any good selfrespecting monster I'm succesfull in dogiong the cameras and prefer to remain a legend. :smok:

 

OK legend unmasked.
Pic's are realy small here. On our CD they are much bigger. I'll just name a few pic's where i'm clearly visible. If pic's wold be as large as on our CD there would be a couple more.

Album "Brez njih ne gre" pic's No's:
91 - I'm first from the right
77- second row first from the left
73- second on the left of the our senior lt. (the guy with a grey baret) i'm kneeling
72 - same as 73
56- last row third from the right
54- first from the left ( cleaning a rifle)
43- third from the right (my face is behind the rifle barrel)
42- standing fourth from the right


Gallery "Akcija" pic's No's:
9 -behind the top houses of the village is our climbing rock -the narrow one
45 - on the right sitting on a rucksack

BTW bandoleeres and such stuff are for begginers. I'm ussualy carying a bayonet for M-48 rifle ( yugoslav after WW2 built K98) as a knife.

 

TISO:
Beautiful countryside and great photos.
Thanks for sharing.

Tim

 

Great pics there Tiso!