My Lai massacre

Re: one last try

If they act out of insanity then they can still be judged, and they must still be locked up, but in a psychological hospital rather than a jail. They must still be put away because apparently they turn into murdering monsters under certain amounts of stress.

I said earlier that if you're comparing regular crime and problems of society to what happens in war then you cannot claim that the circumstances of war are exceptional. This is what you're doing now, and I agree that war is not comparable to normal life - which is why I refuse to accept your analogy between atrocities in war and crimes committed in civilian life. Soldiers come under strain that no civilian has any concept of, myself included.

I am not in fact seated on a high mountain of moral perfection, I know that when I do something wrong in the spur of the moment I regret it later. I also think that I should be held accountable for those actions, because it was still me who committed them, even if I was not thinking clearly. This is the standard by which we should judge all actions, whether or not they were the result of reason at work. Those who commit atrocities in war because of war are still guilty.

 

Few month a go,in croatia one guy come in public,he admit that he killed serbian civilians ,on order from present high politician in croatia.He say that he dream it ewery night and that he could not sleep from guilt.It is good exsample i think...

 

Simple reduction of massacers like this to "it was a heat of battle" are stupid. One can use that excuse for something that does happen during the battle or right after. Both Mai Lai and Haditha lasted for hours not minutes. They to ceratin extent prove a point made by British commander of their zone in Iraq when he said that US military is constitutionaly racist. Their enemies are all Ragheads, Gooks... and winning means killing them all (basicly medivel concept of warfare) and not just winning. This rationale is bad in fighting counter guerrila war where lines are not so defined. From that it is just a small step to include into enemy group their civilian supporters and later all civilians on rationale that they are all the same enemy and that justifies their killings. Counter insugency warfare is a bitch but US should have ample experiance from Vietnam. Did they forget what they learned the hard way there?

 

Tehy did learn.Now the usualy do otther way,they use pappet govermant and iraq mans to fight against iraqi rebelions.They do it now on more refined way,they use years off isolation,and mostly air raids on some country,then after 10y when they destroyed their economy,and weakened army they present themself as a democratic-spread friends,choose their own govermant,help them financialy and logistic 2 take over the power,and when they finish it,buy ewerything what is worthy for 10x less price.If that does not work,they do full agression campain on some excuse (Sadam got chemichal weapons,maybe they think that was Sadam kitchen).In serbia all bigg companys r selled to US companies ,like steel factory 2 US steel,(for price 5x below real one) tobaco industry (phillip-moris) on werry blur conditions.Next step is that they ask military bases in serbia,what for? With agreement that US soldiers hawe right 2 kill anybody in serbia,and that hes completly imune 2 laws.

 

OFF topic

Siniša možeš li pisati na engleskom i ne u GSM stilu . Molim.

 

offtopic allso
Moj енглески је очајан,јбг кад сам учио немачки
-translation-my english is poor,sry all

 

Yet we don't know the facts of what happened at Haditha. The latest evidence available suggests that no atrocity took place.

The fact that one Brit said it or that you say it doesn't make it a fact. Derogatory terms used for the enemy is common to all warfare. There hasn't been a war where it didn't occur. There is nothing unique about the US military in this regard. The truth be told the US military is probably less racist than most other countries in that so many blacks, hispanics and asians are members of the US military.

Where and when has anything like it been done better? The French in Indochina or Algeria? The Soviets in Afghanistan? The Soviets in Chechneya?

 

More nonsense. All of this is just your biased predictions as to what will occur in the future. You have zero facts to support your ideas. This kind of rabidly anti- American garbage has no place in a debate about facts and history.

 

Ur actualy wrong it heapened allrdy.When milosevic was trown off ,next president admit that he recive 2M USD for that act.Dont get me wrong,i was that day on the streets on protest.Like i say,they sell alot bigg factories to foreign companies,mostly US ones.Why NATO launch aggresion on serbia? U know what was the tearms not to do it? NATO troops 2 enter in all Serbia,not just kosovo,and NATO,not UN.If serbia aloow that,it would be Ocupation.So dont say that NATO win in that,coz we got what we wont UN forces r on,and only on kosovo,and UN guaranty as that kosovo is part of serbia by resolution.Killing albaninas? What about when NATO F-16 bombed albanian civilians on road,killed them over 50? Explanation-he thinked that was Serbian Military units.That pilot has high IQ,Serbs go on roads in day lights in bigg crowds,wearing civiliand outfit,and driving civilian venchiles.U sow only what news served u my friend,and that is the diferent.

 

And i must say anotther thing.I dont justify any killings,but fact is that western soldiers r no betther then any otther.

 

sinissa:
I disagree.
The troops that spilled their blood over there protecting innocent civilians from slaughter by government-troops, militia and para-military types would likely contest that point.
They were much better soldiers than the cowards they faced. They came to SAVE lives.

Tim

 

If u talk about albanian forces i desagree wih u.And on kosovo vas not any para-military forces (not case in croatia and bosnia) only regular Police and Military ones,with strict orderes.Albanian civilians die when the albanian separatist started 2 attack serbian army,not before,coz albanians used towns and vilages as they strongholds.The US invent new word for that,it is colateral damage.Many off u dont know wone fact,back in 1981,albanians tryed 2 pull something like that,but back there Yugoslavia was higly influent country in the world,and none of foreign countrys did not support them,so they failed.They just waited right mommnet to do it again,and they could not find betther one.

 

Moderator Post:

Forum policy is that where non-English phrases are used, you must provide the English translation, as this is an English-language forum. If this is a private conversation between you, please use the PM function.

 

Sinissa did provide a translation

 

Sorry, I thought he was apologising for not translating as he had poor English.

 

Yep that was short version of translation.Sry again.

 

Killing 50 civilians by accident because they were mistaken for irregular soldiers from the point of view of a jet fighter pilot is not the same as slaughtering thousands of unarmed civilians, in person, with small-arms fire. Therefore NATO soldiers are definitely not as bad as the Serbs even apart from the point of motivation, made by Hoosier, which stands.

 

Eawen in bosnie iregular forces had military uniforms,on all 3 sides.And they did not drive tractors,they r not sutable for wars.And they not move on the roads in day light when u know that enemy planes r abowe ur head.Actualy body count was 86.Civiliand on albanian side died by the same way,as i pointed albanians taked towns and vilages as their strongholds,with civilians in.When NATO kiled 1300 civilians for that 78 days of bombing (military looses was rougly 2k troops) so 40% r civilian losses,and that is colateral damage.NATO aproved action when in vilage Racak,was find 24 albanian dead,amoung them 1 womman and 1 14y old boy.West claimed that they was excecuted,but later independent forensic determined that all mens was used guns (parafin test) and that wounds was from combat.There allso killed 4 Serb policeman.

 

Like you say, it's collateral damage. Even if it is wrong, it was not intentional, and it probably would not have happened if it could have been avoided. That is in no way comparable to what happened in Srebrenica or My Lai or Oradour-sur-Glane.

 

sinissa ..are you trying to implie that nato forces intentionally killed as many civillians as did the serb forces in that wretched convulsion that transpired with passing the iron willed tito...imo he would roll over in his grave if he could have wittnessed this nasty mess....