Northop P61-B "Black Widow"

I read that the He 219A-0 were updated prototypes is that correct?

Ulrich

 

the A-0 was standard used in the largest amounts Ulrich with the I./NJG 1.

here is some fun reading from old days : and read the 1st and 3rd pages as well........... my opinion has somewhat changed over the years now.

Opinions of the He 219 - Page 2 - World War II Forums

maybe send a private to Martin to have him add materials on this thread if you would like since we are talking more than just the US P-61A and B variants

 

Yes Erich it were good. The P61 was an good opener to an much bigger topic. But please, let the informations on the Widows and their actions come. I am very interested on them. Thanks for the Link too.

Ulrich

 

do not be alarmed I am at the beginning of November 44 with the two ETO units and LW engagements of BC. the 422nd will get caught up shortly.

November 4-5 Will Morlock is shot down by a Mossie Intruder his B/F ejects successfully but Will is found with his crashed He 219. NJG 1 and NJG 2 claim nearly all the success's. NJGr 10 put up 6 109G-6 and AS machines Fritz Krause shoots down a Lancaster but is also hit by return fire and bails out. Interesting story about Herr Fries and his BF on the next nights mission of 6/7 of November 7, 1944.

November 5, 1944 422nd nfs puts up 16 A/C.

0 contacts except for friendlies.
# 47 tries to chase two jets but too fast from Schmidt to the Rhine.

November 6th 44 0 contacts again from the 422nd nfs. as well as the Defensive patrols on the 7th and 8th of November. Again the unit is flying a located corridor over Aachen and towards Köln, Euskirchen over and over again. November 9-11th 1944 no operations are flown due to ?? am assuming bad weather. As the 12th approaches 8 to 10/10th weather becomes socked in with 0 contacts 1 P-61 # 73 is almost lost and diverts to A-78. 1 Mosquito intruder seen as well as an He 111 but to far away and it peels off into fog and lost. 0 on ground attack "Gangster" ops. on the 13th of November socked in and cold conditions 0 contacts for 3 A/C # 73 aborts due to carbon mic frozen with no communications allowed, unit flying towards Koblenz and over Malmedy to the S.E. in Belgium. November 14-16th the 3 operations are cancelled and no flights flown. - A 102B

 

Lt. Otto Fries the pilot who was shot down for four times? Great to hear news about him.

Ulrich

 

Hi Erich,

A fellow called Jan Horn (author of "Wir flogen g'en Westen", the history of KG 6) is working on a KG 51 book right now. I was in contact with him until a recent round of family/work upset drained me and I fell out of touch.

 

Mark yes I remember this chap now, thanks for the heads up.

in your Mossie reports do you have anything covering a He 219 downing for the above on November 4/5, 44 ? I think just 110's and Ju 88G's were reported ..........yes ?

 

Hi Erich,

I suspect the He 219 may have been shot down by W/C Beauchamp of 157 Squadron, who claimed a 110 near Osnabrueck. I believe G9+HL came down at 20.00 hrs near Ibbenbueren, but I don't have a time for Beauchamp's claim.

The combat report is downloadable, but current economic circumstances don't permit the expense.

The other alternative is that he shot down Bf 110 G-4 Wrk.Nr. 440648 G9+RS of 8./NJG 1, which crashed at Bersenbrueck, north of Osnabrueck. Feldwebel Willi Ruge baled out WIA, however radar operator Uffz. Helmut Kreibonn and gunner Ogfr. Anton Weiss were KIA. Don't have a time for that crash though.

Rod M may have the Bomber Command op research report for the night, which might offer momre clues.

 

just re-reading through volume 2 of NJWD and it only says Morlock fell to a Mossie NF. nothing more. you may be right, Rod could possibly have some fill-ins for the new editions due out in 5 years.

last 8./NJG 1 110G-4 fell at 20.30 hrs Mark.

thanks hopeful soon the pieces will fit into the puzzle.

There is still NOT a 85th or 157th Mossie squadron history is there ?

 

well here is to the Mosquito NF crews, not XXX but XIX is enough, what a hot-rod in the air.

Swa fineart - Originals - Time To Go

may have to purchase and frame over my Book shelves in the Cave.

 

Hi Erich,

No, not to my knowledge. There are some good memoirs by Jimmy Rawnsley and Lew Brandon which deal, amongnst other things, with Mossie ops, but no squadron history as such.

Thanks for the time of the 110 crash - duly added to the files.

 

thanks Mark.

any histories for any of the Mossie squadrons in 100th grp ?

 

funny with all the hits the threads are getting and very very little responses but anyone and how what I am posting relates in truth to other postings like the Schnee Eifel, etc.

although I am taking huge risks by placing this info from the US and LW squadrons placed nowhere else on the net and easily gleaned off thought it would make some good sense-reading and truth related instead of fanciful farces so easily put up on bogus sites. no matter enjoy all for what it may be worth to you.

lets see where are we now ............ November 6/7th or so ?

the US squads in the ETO were done as previously mentioned due to low flying visibilities but BC command was flying high over the Reich towards Gravenhorst and a section of to blast Koblenz off the face of the earth and a 48 crate Mossie spoof towards Gelsenkirchen to draw off LW NF's. The feint worked by the LSNF and 100th grp Mossies and many LW NF's flew back to base as the Mossie's were not engaged.

Even with the attack on Koblenz the LW was drawn off arrivwed late as the BC was on the outbound flight. 1 Mosquito lost due to Flak. Bomber support Mossies on the front engaged and shot down claiming 1 Ju 88G and a Bf 110G-4 and possibly another Ju 88 and Ju 188/Ju 88 as probables. LW losses confirm 4 NF's lost three to night combats and another as a deinate engagemenet with a Mosquito Fernnachtjäger a Ju 88G-6 from IV./NJG 3 over marienburghausen pilot KIA ands the two other crew members bailed out unhurt.

The Main force felt the brunt of the LW NF force that was available and in the right direction. Portions of NJG 1, 2, 3 and 4 took part.

 

Hi Erich, nice Avatar a FW 200C-8 witht the Hohentwiel,not bad with her HS-293!

Always great to read to read your informations. But i dont want you to give out the informations that you want have for your book!

The raid on Koblenz was successful with a 87% destroyed city, not bad!

The Lw NF´s seems to had their troubles with the Mossies! Were the Widows aboard at this action?

Regards

Ulrich

 

Ulrich

no I am not sharing anything here that will be in the book, it's secret.

the avatar thank you is a 2./FAGr 5 Ju 290A-2 another almost stealth and little known unit that provided ocean recon at just feet above the ocean to KG 40 with the Fw 200 Kondor variants and especially to U-Boots.

look above on the other dates for the Widow they were grounded due to low cloud cover and fog. remember they did not really have anything to do with the strikes by Bomber Command and were subjected only to hunts within a restricted mileage frame and best suited with heavy loads to bomb and strafe targets of oppourtunity for Pattons Army moves into Germany.

when I interviewed the CO of the 425th nfs and two other pilots of the squadron the Fall of 45 and into 1945 even was a very frustrating time they all wanted to seek and destroy LW A/C and break out in Frei-jagd they knew the LW NF force was out there but barely created a tick against them

 

Ooops i really thought it was a C-8 version!

Erich, i´m wondering that the Widiows with their Radar options were not all weather fighters. Whats the reason for that only the start/landing procdure or more?

Regards

Ulrich

 

as they were under direct GCI ground control they were given orders verbally and by radio when and where they would fly. if according to the histories GCI would call off a chase then the crew would turn around and go back to it's designtaed sectore and do a radar search then if loaded with underwing arms, 0 contact made in the air would do a ground search otherwise it was back to base with low fuel reserves. Again dependent to some degree on the US ground gains and it what direction as the Widows provided for the protective night screen of the US ground forces.

Only in the case of the Ardenne Offensive was the LW Nachtjagd called to support the Armies but not all LW NF's were ordered to do so. BC was still very active at night during this time period.

 

This is somewhat of having the dog on a chain! If they had free hunt they would have been more successful than in their sectore only.
Thats a clear thing for the BC not many NF´s there, easy job!

Regards

Ulrich

 

wait Ulrich till I focus on December 44 maybe the most critical time for the LW Nachtjagd and the scores for both 100th grp Mossies and the US ETO Nf squadrons increase.

the single worst month for LW night fighter losses from all causes in their history and some of the hardest who shot down whom known, many MIA not even found yet in the dark spruce forests of the Ardenne now buried by 10 foot high brush and heavy timber.

 

Yes, i´ll wait, sounds very interesting!

Regards

Ulrich