now what they want?

Plus, the catholic church kept anything from moving forward, well, besides arcitacture. These areas arent under authority from anyone and havent moved forwards.you made some good points regarding the ottomans and such, but they are a threat as they are way to self righteous and outright like zealots.

is the party u were referring too ? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Staatkundi ... #1922-1945

 

Good advice. But read history without an agenda, or you're not going to learn much. It's not fanatical christians or the Spanish Inquisition who tries to discredit the UN by misusing the Council of Human Rights for their own political agenda. It's not fanatical christians or the Spanish Inquisition who sits in classrooms all over Europe just waiting to get pissed off so teachers don't dare to teach what they are supposed to. Now is now and then was then. Personally I don't care if the muslims were the swellest guys ever hundreds of years ago and my own ancestors barbarians, it's what they do now that counts.

 

Yup, that's them.

Varyag: you're absolutely right. I am merely putting things in perspective, especially in reply to Majorwoody's post a short while back in which he stated that Islam has always been and will always be the backward mortal enemy of the great and noble West. I can't change what Muslims do today but at least I can prove him wrong on that count.

 

I don't think i should be a lawyer, not that the world needs another, lol, especially me , lol

 

Ah, while I do agree that the Muslim nations were more advanced, I disagree with your reasons for them leaving us alone. The did actually invade Europe on several occaisions, most notably Spain then France in the 7th Century (I think I got the time right!) and then Eastern Europe in the 14th/15th Century (again, I think I got that right).

So why did they leave us alone? Because whenever they were sufficiently unified to have the strength to invade, they did, and after initial successes, got beaten. The rest of the time, they were too politically fractured to do much of anything outside their own borders. Not too unlike Europe at the time.

The Mongols - well, Aside from Western Europe lacking suitable terrain for their lifestyle, their Khan died so they went home.

 

Not exactly true, but near as dammit. Even useful things like the disection of bodies to discover how we worked (and thus how we could be cured) were banned. Superstitious, Bible-ignoring, grumble grumble.

But, on the flip side, lots of inventions and innovations did arise. Mostly to do with warfare and trade, but hey.

 

ihtersing factoid ...catholic doctrine has it that anyone can get into heaven ,jews ,lutherins ,athiests ...all can be welcome ...let me know when the oh so tolerant muslims decide to vote that way...and roel ,were you meaning to say the muslims invaders left europe voluntairilly ?? they said ...ah its dull here , lets go home ..jihad,,shmeehad ..lets go get a pizza and pitcher .. and find us some 70 virgins...