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Obama has won

Discussion in 'Free Fire Zone' started by cross of iron, Nov 4, 2008.

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  1. Otto

    Otto Rested & Resupplied with MREs. Staff Member WW2|ORG Editor

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    I might be a bit thick, but why do people hold these views about foreign countries and their celebrations of Obama as President? I must admit I'm not all that familiar with the issues, but is it really likely he will be that bad for America internationally? Someone mentioned previously that negotiation with Iran was "selling out", wouldn't talking to Iran be a good thing? I'm thinking of the whole "friends close, enemies closer" concept.
     
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  2. Mussolini

    Mussolini Gaming Guru WW2|ORG Editor

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    Because Obama is 'untested'...McCain said he would come kick your ass if you messed with him, Obama said he'd rather talk over dinner about it. So, expect the international community to start up their antics and push things even more, because they don't/won't expect Obama to respond with an Iron Fist.

    Basically, they view the US as going from a Hawk Lobby (Bush/McCain) to a Dove Lobby (Obama).

    EDIT: Talking to Iran isn't going to solve the problem. It gives them more time to develop their Nuclear Program, and that guy is a Nutjob to start off with. What needs to happen is place an embargo on the country, with China and Russia doing the same. Not going to happen. His lack of experience gives him little credibility on promises too.

    Russia is already pushing the boundaries as far as Nuclear Weapons go too (EU Border).
     
  3. Otto

    Otto Rested & Resupplied with MREs. Staff Member WW2|ORG Editor

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    I understand what you are saying Musso, but I guess I'm not really sure Obama will let other countries unilaterally take advantage of the US, and to be truthful, I think McCain would be a lot less willing to get into yet another war and more likely to negotiate than people may think.

    I'm not all that political myself, but all I can say is that I don't think Obama is the devil some people say he is, nor is he the saviour that others think he is.
     
  4. Joe

    Joe Ace

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    Congratulations to him, and me he have a good presidency! :)
     
  5. Mussolini

    Mussolini Gaming Guru WW2|ORG Editor

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    I'm not saying he is the Devil either, but I'm a little fearful due to some of his suggested policies on both the domestic and foreign levels. McCain promised to be a tough nut to crack on the international level - both diplomatically and militarily. I won't get into a debate about all that stuff now since the election is over. I just get the feeling that Obama is going to more 'talk' then 'action'. Talks are more stalling actions these days, as the 'work' continues and doesn't stop during the talks, and if the talks break down, well, then they weren't any good. You've got to take action in cases like that - embargo, precision strikes (like Israeli Airforce has done countless times) etc, strangle them economically with the threat of overwhelming violence. That works better then saying you'll do something and then not doing it.
     
  6. Otto

    Otto Rested & Resupplied with MREs. Staff Member WW2|ORG Editor

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    You edited your post while I was responding to it. ;) So I'm responding to your edits.

    From what I've read, there is absolutely no way to prevent other nations from developing nuclear technology. It is apparently a fairly easy technology to pursue, it's just very costly. An embargo will only slow the process. Any president (McCain, Bush, Obama, whoever) will have to sit down and talk with Iran or any other country that will inevitably develop these weapons. Again, I'm no international policy guru, but negotiation seems to be a necessity for these issues, while military action seems to be not so necessary.
     
  7. Mussolini

    Mussolini Gaming Guru WW2|ORG Editor

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    A precision strike can set them back years and drive the cost up considerably, if you destroy the facilities used to produce some of the materials. I think the Israelis have done so once before against Iran. Dip into WWII and that Ferry that was sunk that set the Germans back a year at the least in the development of the Technology. Sure, Iran will probably eventually get there, but the longer it takes and the more expensive it becomes will make them extremely hesitant at using it (which is the only purpose to produce it) or even selling it to a Terrorist organization.

    The International Community doesn't work well enough together to really effect things. There are clearly certain countries that should not be allowed to obtain Nuclear Technology, for very obvious reasons, but when half the world powers try to prevent it while the other half try to make it happen, well, things don't work out so well.

    Back on topic though: I think Obama will be tested internationally within the next year. Be it Terrorist Attack, the nutjob in Iran, another Russia/Georgia type conflict, Missile Defense System, etc. I'm sure McCain would have been tested too, but on a lesser scale since he's clearly stated how he would respond to such a thing.


    PS: On a side note Otto, any chance at that CS3 Email? :p
     
  8. Otto

    Otto Rested & Resupplied with MREs. Staff Member WW2|ORG Editor

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    I guess we don't know how Obama will be until he actually serves a day in office. I'll reserve any conclusion until he begins to act.
    working on it. :D
     
  9. PzJgr

    PzJgr Drill Instructor

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    I agree with Mussolini. Obama only has 4 yrs experience in the US Senate and two terms as a state senator. He will be tested at a time when we as a nation really cannot afford it. At least with McCain, he had the long experience and established relationships within the Senate and Congress to be able to get things passed. Internationally, there is no question as to McCain's stance. Hopefully, Obama is as strong as he is a speaker.

    I also agree that change is needed but I have never, and history can back this up, seen a democratic dominated government pull the nation out of an economic crisis nor keep a strong military.
     
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  10. Mussolini

    Mussolini Gaming Guru WW2|ORG Editor

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    There - you said it far better then I could say it! I'm not to political savvy as far as who served what/when etc. Not to mention that Bush/McCain are from the same Party, so the 'upheaval/changes' would be very slim/negligible as far as personnel go, or amount of seats etc.

    Some one, elsewhere on the internets, made a truly interesting comparison. I can't find direct quote, so I will simplify it completely:

    Obama is to Bush as FDR is to Hoover

    :eek::eek:

    I don't think so....not even close...
     
  11. Erich

    Erich Alte Hase

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    although pres he is NOT the president until the officiating ceremony in January, alot can happen ladies/gents. his office is worthless his congress as was done under Bushy will be making the primary decisions for this country

    smooth talking will not win us votes overseas, well I hope not, nor inact the necessary changes needed in the US. At the present the nation is under a terrible emotion of fear, I have been up most of the night counseling too many friends and familiy who feel we are doomed and that downfall is emminent........ in other words "we are screwed" and that statement is putting it rather nicely.

    personally WE ARE NOT SCREWED, get our panties out of a bind, take the sqift kick in the nutz and move on and necesatate the changes that need to be made in the local govt first and move up the chain.

    If Obama does prove what he says as a can do candidate elect then he will have enmass revolution on his hands......

    right now I remain positive and pray for America to be strong in all respects as we should be.

    v/r E ~
     
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  12. Devilsadvocate

    Devilsadvocate Ace

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    The problem isn't in talking with your enemies, it's knowing what to say. Anybody remember Jimmy Carter?
     
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  13. PzJgr

    PzJgr Drill Instructor

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    And worst yet, anyone remember Chamberlain and promises of goodwill received from Hitler? Iran's Ahmadinejad has commented that if the US offers its hand, it will return in kind. Hmmm? Sounds familiar
     
  14. Erich

    Erich Alte Hase

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    remember Adolf H the ugly one ? hey I got Germany out of it's funk-depression now for my own adjenda ........

    remember how smooth he was in front of the camera..............he sure used his hands alot though
     
  15. Otto

    Otto Rested & Resupplied with MREs. Staff Member WW2|ORG Editor

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    I see all your points, but as I said before, I don't think it's as ominous as some may think. Either McCain or Obama would be capable leaders in my opinion, but Obama won, so he's the boss. Hopefully he does well.

    Lack of leadership experience is a valid argument, but couldn't the same be said of Palin? At least she would be 2nd in line as opposed to the boss.

    Also, I thinks it's worth mentioning the odd "liberal" vs "conservative" thing. The two-sided, right vs left, political spectrum is quite frankly outmoded and incorrect. Politics is a thing of depth, height, and other textured concepts that cannot be displayed on a linear slide. Obama and McCain are actually arm-in-arm politically. (Blasphemy!) A look at any other nation with more than 2 parties will have a much more broad spectrum of platforms, including real socialists and real fascists. I never understood these terms being applied to democrat or republican politicians in the US, but then again politics is the home of super-hyperbole.
     
  16. Erich

    Erich Alte Hase

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    but he's not the boss and that is a very important point, he is just a figure-head for the ideal America the same was said and is of Bushy and the ones before him. who can a commoner blame or the worlds leadership, of course the one that is pointed as leader
     
  17. Otto

    Otto Rested & Resupplied with MREs. Staff Member WW2|ORG Editor

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    Erich are comparing Obama to Hitler? :D I'm no Obama supporter, but this is a bit secere don't you think?
     
  18. Mussolini

    Mussolini Gaming Guru WW2|ORG Editor

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    What the US needs to do is get away from this two party system. Its either a Dem or Rep who wins the election. People are too uneducated to realize that there are a host of 3rd parties out there also running for election, who are banned from the Debates (which were set up by the Dems + Reps) and who get little/no attention.
     
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  19. Erich

    Erich Alte Hase

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    Otto what comes around goes around. I pray not but I have heard and seen worse things as to leadership in many countries over the years. Does Obama have an adjenda ? yes they all do. where he goes with that we will all have to wait. Is the man one of his word in every respect ? we will have to wait and see ........

    Muss is correct as other have stated the two party system has and will always be a joke, and we wonder why we get into the panty binds like we do; is ever anything agreed upon 100 % by both parties.... ? never
     
  20. texson66

    texson66 Ace

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    As the Left is fond of saying "Bush isn't MY President'; I'll just let this stand on its own:



    "Understanding Obama: The Making of a Fuehrer

    By Ali Sina

    I must confess, I was not impressed by Senator Barack Obama from the first time I saw him. At first I was excited to see a black candidate. He looked youthful, spoke well, appeared to be confident, a wholesome presidential package. I was put off soon, not just because of his shallowness but also because there was an air of haughtiness in his demeanor that was unsettling. His posture and his body language were louder than his empty words. Obama’s speeches are unlike any political speech we have heard in American history. Never a politician in this land had such a quasi religious impact on so many people. The fact that Obama is a total incognito with zero accomplishment makes this inexplicable infatuation alarming. Obama is not an ordinary man. He is not a genius. In fact, he is quite ignorant on most important subjects. Barack Obama is a narcissist. Dr. Sam Vaknin, the author of “Malignant Self Love”, also believes, Barack Obama appears to be a narcissist.


    Vaknin is a world authority on narcissism. He understands it and describes the inner mind of a narcissist like no other person. When he talks about narcissism everyone listens. Vaknin says that Obama’s language, posture and demeanor, and the testimonies of his closest, nearest and dearest suggest that the Senator is either a narcissist or he may have narcissistic personality disorder (NPD).
    Narcissists project a grandiose but false image of themselves. Jim Jones, the charismatic leader of People’s Temple, the man who led over 900 of his followers to cheerfully commit mass suicide and even murder their own children was also a narcissist.

    Charles Manson, Joseph Koni, Shoko Asahara, Joseph Stalin, Saddam, Mao Zedong, Kim Jong IL, and Adolph Hitler are a few examples of narcissists of our time. All these men had a tremendous influence over their fanciers and followers. They created a personality cult around themselves, and with their blazing speeches elevated their admirer’s souls, filled their hearts with enthusiasm and instilled in their minds a new zest for life. Those men gave their followers hope! They promised them the moon, but alas, they invariably brought them to their doom. When you are a victim of a cult of personality, you don’t know it until it is too late.

    One determining factor in the development of NPD is childhood abuse. Obama’s early life was decidedly chaotic and replete with traumatic and mentally bruising dislocations, says Vaknin. Mixed-race marriages were even less common then. His parents went through a divorce when he was an infant (two years old). Obama saw his father only once again, before he died in a car accident. His mother re-married and Obama had to relocate to Indonesia, a foreign land with a radically foreign culture, to be raised by a stepfather. He was raised as an only child, full of himself and no others. He never had to share the spotlight with any siblings. At the age of ten, he was whisked off to live with his maternal (white) grandparents. He saw his mother only intermittently in the following few years and then she vanished from his life in 1979. She died of cancer in 1995.

    One must never underestimate the manipulative genius of pathological narcissists. They project such an imposing personality that it overwhelms those around them. Charmed by the charisma of the narcissist, people become like clay in his hands. They cheerfully do his bidding and delight to be at his service. The narcissist shapes the world around him and reduces others in his own inverted image. He creates a cult of personality; his admirers become his co-dependents.

    Narcissists have no interest in things that do not help them to reach their personal objectives. They are focused on one thing alone, and that is power.

    All other issues are meaningless to them and they do not want to waste their precious time on trivialities. Anything that does not help them is beneath them and does not deserve their attention. If an issue raised in the Senate does not help Obama in one way or another, he has no interest in it. The “Present” vote is a safe vote; he used the “Present” all the time as a member of the Illinois legislature. No one can criticize him if things go wrong. Why should he implicate himself in issues that may become controversial when they don’t help him personally? Those issues are unworthy by their very nature because they are not about him.

    Obama’s election as the first black president of the Harvard Law Review led to a contract and an advance to write a book about race relations. The University of Chicago Law School provided him with a fellowship and an office to work on his book. The book took him a lot longer than expected, and at the end it devolved into, guess what? His own autobiography! Instead of writing a scholarly paper focusing on race relations, for which he had been paid, Obama could not resist writing about his most sublime self. He entitled the book “Dreams from My Father.”

    Not surprisingly, Adolph Hitler also wrote his own autobiography when he was still nobody. So did Stalin. For a narcissist no subject is as important as his own self. Why would he waste his precious time and genius writing about insignificant things when he can write about such an august being as himself?

    Narcissists are often callous and even ruthless. As the norm, they lack conscience. This is evident from Obama’s lack of interest in his own brother who lives on only one dollar per month. A man who lives in luxury, who takes a private jet to vacation in Hawaii, and who has raised nearly a half billion dollars for his campaign (something unprecedented in history) has no interest in the plight of his own brother. Why? His brother cannot be used for his ascent to power. A narcissist cares for no one but himself.

    This election is like no other election in the history of America. The issues are insignificant compared to what is at stake. What can be more dangerous than having a man bereft of a conscience, a serial liar, and one who cannot distinguish his fantasies from reality as the leader of the free world?

    I hate to sound alarmist, but one must be a fool if one is not alarmed. Many politicians are narcissists. They pose no threat to others. They are simply self-serving and selfish. [Witness Al Gore’s Income Tax; it reveals that he gave away NO MONEY to charities, not even to a church!] Obama evinces symptoms of pathological narcissism, which is different from the run-of-the-mill narcissism of a Richard Nixon or Bill Clinton, for example. To him reality and fantasy are intertwined. This is a mental health issue, not just a character flaw. Pathological narcissists are dangerous because they look normal and even intelligent. It is this disguise that makes them treacherous. [Look up the word “treachery.”]

    Today the Democrats have placed all their hopes in Obama. But this man could put an end to their party [and to this great nation]. The great majority of blacks have also decided to vote for Obama. Only a fool does not know that their support for him is racially driven.

    Let us call a spade a spade [No pun intended]. This is racism, pure and simple. The truth is that, while everyone carries a misconceived collective guilt towards blacks for wrongs done centuries ago by a bygone people to a bygone people, the blacks carry a collective rancor, enmity or vendetta towards non-blacks, and to this day want to stand up to the white man. They seem to be stuck in 19th century [encouraged by race baiters like Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson and others].

    The downside of this is, that if Obama turns out to be the disaster I predict, he will cause widespread resentment among the whites. The blacks are unlikely to give up their support of their man. Cultic mentality is pernicious and unrelenting. They will dig their heads deeper in the sand and blame Obama’s detractors of racism. This will cause a backlash among the whites. The white supremacists will take advantage of the discontent and they will receive widespread support.

    I predict that in less than four years, racial tensions will increase to levels not seen since the turbulent 1960s. Obama will set the clock back decades. America is the bastion of freedom. The peace of the world depends on the strength of America, and its weakness translates into the triumph of terrorism and victory of rogue nations. It is no wonder that Ahmadinejad, Hugo Chavez, the Maoist Castroists, the Hezbollah, the Hamas, the lawyers of the Guantanamo terrorists, and virtually all sworn enemies of America are so thrilled by the prospect of their man in the White House.

    America is on the verge of destruction. There is no insanity greater than electing a pathological narcissist as president.”
     
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