Panzer Assault Badge in Silver

Are you even 1% sure that it isn't? Did you look at how horrible that badge looks? Yes, stamped badges did exist...many makers used the design but they were never stamped out of tin...look at how soft the features of this badge are...you could bend it in half with two fingers I'd wager. Go onto all of the auction sites...you will find the exact same badge being offered up all over the place.

There is a reason that is was for sale for $70.00...not what you'd expect to pay for an original (for one in this condition it would be $250.00 +) but not cheap enough to alert the casual collector...you see that's the beauty of a gun show..these small time dealers know that it is usually the casual collector that attends...say a gun collector that always liked the looks of a 'Natzi badge'...$70.00 is the perfect 'mark' price...not to expensive..keeping in mind that the collector is only looking as a passing fancy...but not too low as to raise suspicion. It's like shooting fish in a barrell.

Rich

 

Im not talking about HIS badge, I was talking about mine.

 

Well then to eliminate confusion perhaps it would be a smarter idea to start your own thread if you would like to talk about your own pieces. It can get confusing to people on here as to why you are all of the sudden talking about your items in the middle of someone elses topic.

Just a thought....

Rich

 

No new thread needed. For some reason your choose=ing to be a thorn in my big left toe. Same thing (speaking of Badges) can be said about the Bronze PAB-which I also got from the same well known and trusted collector that I know you know without mentioning names. Whats next? am I going to read that they did not make hollowed versions of the IAB and GABs? I have examples of each and from twom other wellknown-learned trusted and respected collectors I know you also know-without mentioning names.

 

I think you need to re-read my posts sir...you find ONE time where I said that hollow or semi-hollow backed badges did not exist.

My observations of you on this board since my time being here finds that somehow you seem to feel the need to share with everyone what you have in your collection via other people's posts. I am not sure why you can not start your own threads if you'd like to talk about your items...if I had posted a piece from my collection and you used my thread to start talking about what you have, have had, have given away or just don't like it would be the last for me.

I am still not too sure why my comment about posting habits has you all up in arms Carl...are varying opinions not OK with you? I can make the same gripe with you sir...everytime I correct you, you seem to feel the need to attack or lash out at me. I correct any and everyone if they are wrong...the only reason I am here is to help some folks learn and not to make the same mistakes that I did when I started many moons ago. I believe nearly everybody else in the militria section appreciates my contributions...except for you...why is that Carl?

Perhaps I am not needed here...this section fared well with my assistance before.

Richard Rodriguez

 

Also, Carl I never once doubted your badges...why are you assuming that I am attacking the originality of your pieces? I simply asked why you do not start your own threads. On the contrary...I'm sure you have some nice examples.

Rich

 

And your point to this tirade is?

Oh and, so what if I tell people what I have by saying so in other posts? if you dont like it? oh well.

From day one, you have come off negatively here-mostly whenever it concerns my postings and such. Just remember that when i say I hacve somehting, I dont care if you believe me or not? Others do and I get my stuff posted here when possible.

Best regards-C.

 

Rich, im not picking on you if thats what you mean? We all have knowledge to share here and I try my best to share what I have when I have and the best I can. I share other knowledge based on people I get/got stuff from and what they tell me about those items. I never not once have claimed to be an expert on anything but I do lay claim that I am an expert on what I have in my collection and I can reasonable say that I pretty good when it comes to cloth rank insignia. Other than that, photos and Eastern Front stuff is of my interest. I chime in when I see need to do wo. Also, no, I dont wear my heart on my sleeve, if I did so? i'd have left this site 8 or more years ago. However, a lot of folks come to me to find things, and to get answers on. Right or wrong? I do my best to tell them what I know. I dont start public riots over things either. Yeah, I admit, im an Ass-at times but at least I can admit to it.

I dont hide behind names and most here know me. Most here also know that when I say I havesoemthing in my collection, I have it. If I say I have an item that belonged to the Gradn Duke of Mecklinberg/Schwerin-I do have it. I dont make false claims in owning militaria I do not have. I see no point in doing so and if someone ever askes me to prove I have something, sometimes I do prove it and sometimes I just dont give a damn at their request because of the way they came off about it.

Ive been collecting fro almost 30 yerars, and yeah, im not rich, nor well-to-do BUT, I buy what I can when I can. I dont like selling off anything form the collection unless I have to for one good reason or another. I rarely get rid of anything I buy-except for occasional trades with friends and dealers.

True my collection isnt worth a million dollars, but then again, I dont care if it is or not? Like I said what I buy I keep unless I no longer need it for anything or have no interest in it. Yes, I do give away alot of things and I get things in free too.

I can go no more on Wed when I get back as I have no more time for the day.

BEst regards--C.

 

nm

 

As I ran out of computer time with the last post, I did not intend to come off rudely. I had to post as I had a few seconds left to do so before i loe the post and the computer shuts down.

Thank you for your nice words on that I must have some nice things. I do, and I greatly thank the proper people I met and got them from.

Best regards-_Carl.

 

Gentlemen, I just wanted to say that both of your input and advice are greatly appreciated here.

Mark my word, if I see something in an antique store that I want to purchase, I would take pictures first and post it here, then kindly ask for your advice on the piece before I buy it.

 

Thank you Darren, your kind words are greatly appreciated.

 

I had to salute your remark Darren--blessed be the peacemakers.
I'm not a collector but really enjoy hearing what very knowledgeable people have to say--Believe me, this forum is blessed to have you two as members, giving advice and helping those who do enjoy the sport. Don't either of you get pissed and leave, we would all be poorer for it.

 

Im humbled, and thank you. There are others here much better than I in many militaria collecting department sthat i could only dream of being as good as. ;-0)

 

Hi everyone, getting back to the PAB in question, its a common fake reffered to as the dumbell fake, due to the track links which look like dumbells for weight training.
Not all PABS are solid backed and indeed some of the very best are stamped out made from tomback (brass). If your lucky enough to get a stamped neusilber Panzerkampfabzeichen, made by the firm of Juncker then you will be spending about £500. There are variations stamped out of zink too and although most are unmarked the firm of Assmann did mark theirs with their "A" logo in the tracked area. As for later zink types then most of these are not as good quality and conform to a mostly singular design which was adopted by several makers. There are all manner of backing types, from marked makers, dished, flat, scooped and stamped.
A good guide if you want to collect Panzer badges is the 2 volume set about these badges by Phillipe de Bock, at Papjay publishing, which has everything from award documents, the 5 design types from all the makers and packages they were issued in. Along with a catalogue of most if not all the fakes.
As a word of caution for the buyer of the badge posted, be careful not to buy badges with hardwear on the back that is not Third Reich, as this is a good give away that your dealing with a fake. Stamped variations should be a well detailed mirror image of the obverse. Look out for any pabs with dumbells and also two dots below the tank, as this one used to fool a lot of people and is known as the two dot fake.
Hope thats helpful

Regards John

 

Hi again, here are some pictures of the PABs in my collection just for your reference.
The first two are the stamped variety. The one on the left is a "seven wheeler" which has the following aspects to look out for. A double striked gun barrel. Possible breaks to the oakleaf wreath where it meats the eagle or tank. A question marked catch, a cut out hakenkreuz. The other PAB, is the much saught after Juncker Neusilber, made from nickel silver and is one of the very first manufactured. These are heavily faked. But the points to look out for, are, a die flaw on the left track, top first link should be flattened. A wreath inner flaw at 2 o clock, and the catch soldered at the bottom. On some a line on the headlights, but not on all examples. All these points to an original.
If you look to the reverses then these should be well defined mirror images of the obverse.
The pins and catches are paramount in your search for an original.

 

The next two up, are flat backed. The Juncker in bronze to the left which is unmarked. (This one is sometimes reffered to as an S&L but this is debateable, as their are two versions, this one having the dimpled pattern between the wings/ legs and swastika. Where as the other example does not have this feature.) Again its the hardwear that proves this to be an original. But sizes and weights with material also offer a good way of determining real from fake. The second one is a slightly rarer unmaked Rudolf Souval in bronze. Souval badges had a copper coloured coating underneath the finish. I tried to catch this in the pic for you.

 

The last one I will post for now is a variant, type 2 "Daisy" in Zinc silver Panzerkampfabzeichen. As you can see the back is not flat or like the stamped versions, but is semi hollow in appearance. Again when buying one of these pay particular attention to the hardwear and the marks to the back of the pab, as well as all the aspects of the front.
I hope these posts are helpful to you and hope you wont be put off by your first purchase that turned out to be a fake. As someone else said we have all done it.

kind regards John