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Putting to Bed 9/11 Conspiracy Theories for Ever

Discussion in 'The Stump' started by Christopher47, Sep 11, 2014.

  1. Poppy

    Poppy grasshopper

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    cough- Bengahzi. Yeah, they had to work with Clinton. ..Then there is a whole list to be found by search on the nets. Hello Stump. oh yeah, this is the stump.
     
  2. USMCPrice

    USMCPrice Idiot at Large

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    I disagree. They want to play their stupid little Machiavellian games let them do so with their own assets or their political and criminal cronies. When you have a military member, a US citizen, that joined to support and defend the Constitution and fight the enemy and the CIA burns them as an expendable asset, there is no excuse. If they'd ever burned my team, and I managed to get out, Langley would be a huge smoking hole in the ground.
    If the American public ever learned the truth about a lot of their shady dealings, they would demand that they be disbanded.
     
  3. lwd

    lwd Ace

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    I wasn't looking so much at the threat levels (obviously the various commandoes have access to much more leathal weapons as well and can employ them more readily) but the goals i.e. gather intelligence/evidence and use that to go after more of the bad guys. Apparently for instance software that helped predict gang activity in major cities also worked well at predicting terrorist activity in SWA.

    A friend of mine was on a semipro splat ball team for a while. They practiced against one of the local SWAT teams occasionally as well as ROTC teams (who admitedly were likely not up to the average infantry squad by any means). The SWAT team was a much tougher opponent. It may depend a lot on the team and how much they practice.

    My understanding was that a lot of the raids in SWA were initiated with a bomb or a 155mm HE round into the structure of interest followed very quickly by the raiding team. Anything that would likely produce additional leads was gathered up and in some cases analized in place or transfered to the analyst as quickly as possible. The ideal situation could be one raid resulting in several more which resulted in several more the same night.

    There was also the problem that the Spooks often needed to get intel very quickly and couldn't necessarily transport captives. This resulted in them using technicques and treating captives in ways that were not in accord with the Conventions. Some of the military individuals that worked with them seem to have developed the idea that this was acceptable. It may and I stress may be acceptable in some cases for intell operatives but it should not be for those in the military not only is it illegal but it is often counter productive. A good interogater can get much better intell often quicker without resorting to "harsh interrogation" and without the negative press if it gets out. This is not to say that your point isn't valid, indeed it may be even more important than the point I am trying to make. Spy's are necessary but it's by nature a dirty buisness and one really should keep the military out of it as much as possible.
     
  4. KodiakBeer

    KodiakBeer Member

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    Would that be the FDR who locked up hundreds of thousands of citizens in concentration camps, or some other FDR?
     
  5. Poppy

    Poppy grasshopper

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    The more things change...
     
  6. A-58

    A-58 Cool Dude

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    I believe that the CIA should be disbanded and the OSS be resurrected. Put them under the JCS to keep them accountable for their actions. At least put them under the DoD. That way they would have to take the same oath that military members have to take, to include supporting and defending the constitution.
     
    USMCPrice likes this.
  7. Poppy

    Poppy grasshopper

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    Nice to see some honesty. Too bad y'all are now on a list. (my xmas list)... Surprised MP wears his heart on the sleeve. You the man MP.
     
  8. CAC

    CAC Ace of Spades

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    Some definitions of terror or terrorism can be mirrored by the CIA...bloods and the crypts...or even the Ku Klux Klan...all pseudo terror organisations...some are allowed by America...CIA the biggest. Still...if any of us really know what they are up to.....they have failed.
     
  9. lwd

    lwd Ace

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    Having thought a bit more about what I said about raids I'm not sure that it makes any sense at all.
     
  10. A-58

    A-58 Cool Dude

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    I've been on a few raids myself. They all have the potential to end badly for all involved regardless of the intentions. Never any fun. Always followed by tons of paperwork, especially if shots are fired or injuries occur. Nothing like on TV that's for sure.
     
  11. belasar

    belasar Court Jester Staff Member

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    Or the Black and Tan's or Bushveldt Carbineer's.

    Let's be equitable mate :)
     
  12. Poppy

    Poppy grasshopper

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  13. Poppy

    Poppy grasshopper

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    I say, I say, abnormal trading. Hello. ..When it comes to debunking the crazy 911 stuff, that's easy. Where it gets real, would be a money trail. C'mon GS, elldub, LJ, ViP, etc. This is where the real work is. Does anyone see a money connection? I'll try to find an appropriate music video while y'all work.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4003xkcTJmI
     
  14. Poppy

    Poppy grasshopper

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  15. Bundesluftwaffe

    Bundesluftwaffe New Member

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    Loose Change ? Guess I watched it years ago, might not be the best docu/movie out there, will post a better one if I stumble over one...

    But this site seems pretty effective and also the writing style of the author is neat:

    http://www.davesweb.cnchost.com/nwsltr67.html

    Note, 1 or 2 links are dead, so you need to click on "home" scroll down to the 9/11 section. He has severall articles about every event......nad it comes from the.........the CIA lol (CIA = center for informed americans lol) I ´ve not read his other stuff (eg. Boston bombing) only the 9/11 one, so I can only recommend this element of his site atm.

    He has these quotes too which are quite nice:

    "And it seems to me perfectly in the cards that there will be within the next generation or so a pharmacological method of making people love their servitude, and producing … a kind of painless concentration camp for entire societies, so that people will in fact have their liberties taken away from them but will rather enjoy it, because they will be distracted from any desire to rebel by propaganda, brainwashing, or brainwashing enhanced by pharmacological methods."
    Aldous Huxley, 1959
    "Through clever and constant application of propaganda people can be made to see paradise as hell, and also the other way around, to consider the most wretched sort of life as paradise."
    Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, 1923
    "If ignorance is truly bliss, then why do so many Americans need Prozac?"
    Your Host, 2000


    Here a good presentation from Swiss historian D. Ganser (famous for his research on Op. Gladio).. sorry it´s switzerdütsch :) Will find English link too.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhqHf2FzhO4
     
  16. Bundesluftwaffe

    Bundesluftwaffe New Member

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    Can I also answer, their was insider trading BEFORE 9/11 of these airlines as well I think of insurance companies..no one seemed bothered to investigate that further. They found one big trader tho, but said, he had nothing to do with El Kaida, but didn´t name this trader or followed the money trail at all.

    Here nice 9/11 video from: http://pilotsfor911truth.org/

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6WSDxErgBE
     
  17. lwd

    lwd Ace

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    Sources Please. I can believe that there was insider trading but how was it different from any other similar period?

    Why would the National Institute of Standards and Technology or for that matter FEMA have any role in investigating this?

    If there was a big inside trader found then it's quite likely action would have been persued against him because insider trading is illegal. That somoene made some big trades during the period just before the attack is hardly proof of anything, especially if it wasn't out of the ordinary.

    General insinuations are easy to make but they are a long way from facts. If you can't supply the latter it makes liittle sense to post the former unless you are trying to smear someone or some organization.
     
  18. Bundesluftwaffe

    Bundesluftwaffe New Member

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    Found D. Gansers presentation in English :) For startes of the story it´s very good I think. Draw your own conclusions from the materials posted.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEN2wbaYlik

    This one also good:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bubrZqLi_Sw
     
  19. KodiakBeer

    KodiakBeer Member

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    Or, we could draw our conclusions based on what real scholars think of Daniele Ganser


     
  20. Bundesluftwaffe

    Bundesluftwaffe New Member

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    Op. Gladio was proven and examined in 3 European countries, including witness statements (in Italy). Even Wiki has much to say: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Gladio

    Italy:

    "
    Christian Democrat Prime Minister Giulio Andreotti publicly recognized the existence of Gladio on October 24, 1990. Andreotti spoke of a "structure of information, response and safeguard", with arms caches and reserve officers. He gave to the Commissione Stragi, the parliamentary commission led by senator Giovanni Pellegrino in charge of investigations on bombings committed during the Years Of Lead in Italy, a list of 622 civilians who according to him were part of Gladio. Andreotti also stated that 127 weapons' cache had been dismantled, and said that Gladio had not been involved in any of the bombings committed from the 1960s to the 1980s.
    Andreotti declared that the Italian military services (predecessors of the SISMI) had joined in 1964 the Allied Clandestine Committee created in 1957 by the US, France, Belgium and Greece, and which was in charge of directing Gladio's operations.[10] However, Gladio was actually set up under Minister of Defense (from 1953 to 1958) Paolo Taviani's supervision.[8] Beside, the list of Gladio members given by Andreotti was incomplete. It didn't include, for example, Antonio Arconte, who described an organization very different from the one brushed by Giulio Andreotti: an organization closely tied to the SID secret service and the Atlanticist strategy.[11][12] According to Andreotti, the stay-behind organisations set up in all of Europe did not come "under broad NATO supervision until 1959."[13]
    2000 Parliamentary report: a "strategy of tension"
    In 2000, a Parliament Commission report from the communist/centre-left coalition "Gruppo Democratici di Sinistra l'Ulivo" asserted that a strategy of tension had been supported by the United States to "stop the PCI, and to a certain degree also the PSI, from reaching executive power in the country". It stated that "Those massacres, those bombs, those military actions had been organized or promoted or supported by men inside Italian state institutions and, as has been discovered more recently, by men linked to the structures of United States intelligence." According to The Guardian, "The report [claimed] that US intelligence agents were informed in advance about several rightwing terrorist bombings, including the December 1969 Piazza Fontana bombing in Milan and the Piazza della Loggia bombing in Brescia five years later, but did nothing to alert the Italian authorities or to prevent the attacks from taking place.
    It also [alleged] that Pino Rauti [current leader of the MSI Fiamma-Tricolore party], a journalist and founder of the far-right Ordine Nuovo (new order) subversive organisation, received regular funding from a press officer at the US embassy in Rome. 'So even before the 'stabilising' plans that Atlantic circles had prepared for Italy became operational through the bombings, one of the leading members of the subversive right was literally in the pay of the American embassy in Rome,' the report says."[14]"


    Belgium:
    After the 1967 withdrawal of France from NATO's military structure, the SHAPE headquarters were displaced to Mons in Belgium. In 1990, following France's denial of any "stay-behind" French army, Giulio Andreotti publicly said the last Allied Clandestine Committee (ACC) meeting, at which the French branch of Gladio was present, had been on October 23 and 24, 1990, under the presidency of Belgian General Van Calster, director of the Belgian military secret service SGR. In November, Guy Coëme, the Minister of the Defense, acknowledged the existence of a Belgium "stay-behind" army, lifting concerns about a similar implication in terrorist acts as in Italy. The same year, the European Parliament sharply condemned NATO and the United States in a resolution for having manipulated European politics with the stay-behind armies.[15]
    New legislation governing intelligence agencies' missions and methods was passed in 1998, following two government inquiries and the creation of a permanent parliamentary committee in 1991, which was to bring them under the authority of Belgium's federal agencies. The Commission was created following events in the 1980s, which included the Brabant massacres and the activities of far right group Westland New Post.[16]
     

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