Russia slams Polish parliament's World War II resolution

urgh, I see you are going on about anti-semitism and the german atrocities peformed upon Jews by the Germans and Polish alike. How about some records of the very obvious anti-semitism performed by your Commie friends? And, one other point, as I am half-Bulgarian - do you have the slightest clue that our King Boris saved all Bulgarian Jews and was thus poisoned for it? And, years later, at a very big forum commemorating the Holocaust, you guys simply "forgot" to mention that Bulgaria, yes little Bulgaria ,did, in fact, save all our Jews from being sent to death camps? No, didn't think you'd know about that smartalec.

 

Brannick, you are taking posts way out of it's intended context. Urqh is no commie by any description of the term. A left-leaning bleeding liberal socialist maybe, a decendent of scurvy pirate stock probably, a defender of the crown - no doubt in my mind, and a 1st class funnyman, absolutely. Add to that a disabled British veteran. Some even claim that he is a well respected member of this forum and enjoy his view of things, those that understand his posts that is.

Read a few more posts before flying off the handle, and you'll enjoy yourself here in the forum a great deal more. And don't take everything so serious. Nobody was advocating the Soviet lifestyle and it's administrative practices here. Those who do last about as long around here as the neo-nazi-wannabees and Holacaust Deniers.

You should really lighten up a bit before a mod checks you into the formerjughead+ suite (the cooler).

 

I am not looking to kick up a storm towards getting banned, you know, so thanks for the caution. It's just that, I may not have fought in WW2, but all older relatives seem to have been involved in it (some are church bombing Commies, including my grandma and shame on her for it, although she believed in the "ideals", others are on the "other" side), what I truly hate is the twisting of history, cause I'll tell you this - the West let the East be badly and brutally raped by the "Soviet liberators", and yet the West does still deny the fact that the Bolsheviks bled the worst in this war, it baffles the mind really. I am not a Holocaust denier for God's sake, but I seriously cannot udnerstand how the USSR symbols are still everywhere when they are as criminal as any Nazi insignia.

 

The Hammer & Sickle is a symbol of the working class, it was never created with the intent of hating a particular group of people, race, etc but to unite people under it regardless of race, age, sex, etc under a single banner. The Nazi Party was created with the goal of a racially pure race in mind, the Swastika was adapted and quickly became a symbol of oppression and hate.

I don't consider myself a artsy person but I find that the Hammer and Sickle looks nice, infact I find that the art style used by the Communist party in the early stages (forget the name) to be very impressive and a accurate representation of the era.

As a disclaimer please don't look to deeply into the last paragraph, I'm just saying it looks good on the eyes and captures the period nicely.

 

I don't think that any minimally serious historian would think that the Soviet Union didn't shoulder the lion's share of the fighting and dying in WW2. They just might not like to admit it, and I was one of them for quite some time. And yes, once the Iron Curtain fell after the war, it was a dark time for the countries of eastern Europe to say the least. But look at it this way and see if it makes any sense. Most of those countries took an active role in the invasion of the USSR, and once the war was over, they suffered the consequenses of their actions as a result. Not saying that they deserved it, but that's the way it works when your country loses a war. Sad but true. And that war in the east was barbarous by any standards.

The other thing to consider is that the west, that you claimed stood by and watched eastern Europe suffer under the communist yoke (and not saying that they didn't), just finished a rather expensive, bloody and exhaustive war themselves, and they really weren't in the mood to start it all over again for anyone.

 

Blimey you must live in a funny place if you live where the swastika is banned sunshine. I prefer to live in a place where neither is banned. I take it you live in Germany. If not, which country do you come from that stops you wearing your swastika?

 

Actually I see you hail from Sofia and london...So its banned in Sofia is it,,,it certainly isnt banned in London....rightly so or not.

 

It isn't bad persay but wearing it could get you into a lot of trouble, or at least beat up, the Nazi Swastika to be specific.

I was also thinking of this topic a bit more after signing off last night, if we were to start banning symbols started off good but were subject to evil taint later on we would have to ban just about every religious symbol, political party, etc.

 

Mehar...My sarcasm is a trait I'm afraid....I was basically pointing out the poster was wrong in saying it was banned. It quite simply is not banned anywhere where the poster lives. I do like the English language....I like to think if someone states something is banned they actually mean it is banned and do not think the rest of us are thick.

 

Just a little fuel for this fire...

ART SPIEGELMAN wrote, in comic book form, an account of his father's experiences as a survivor of Auschwitz. Called "MAUS....A Survivors Tale", it details Vladek Spiegelman's struggle to survive. Near the end of the second book, Vladek is attempting to be reunited with what is left of his family, Polish Jews from the village of Sosnowiec. Arriving in Hannover, Germany, he talks with the German family that are boarding him. We pick up the story as they are discussing this at the kitchen table.....

...We finally arrived in Hannover

German Housewife: "The kids can share one bedroom, you two can have the other. Do you know where your family is?"
Vladek: "I'll go to Poland to see if anyone's left. We planned to meet in Sosnowiec if we got separated. I sent a letter to the Jewish Community Center there, for my wife, but- she CAN'T still be alive. I saw her in Auschwitz last year....she was so thin, so weak...."
G/Housewife: "You might get news about your family at the big DP camp at Belsen. Jews are flooding in from all over."

It wasn't so far, so I went for a few days to Belsen. One morning a crowd arrived in, with two girls what I knew a little from my home town....

Vladek:"JENNY! SONIA!"
Jenny: "Look! It's Vladek Spiegelman!"
Sonia: "We just came from Poland!"
Jenny: "We were LUCKY to get out!"
Sonia: "Whatever you do, don't go back to Sosnoweic! The POLES are still killing Jews there! Remember the Gelbers? They owned a big bakery in Sosnowiec. One of the sons survived and came back home...

Pole: "What do YOU want?"
Gelber "This is my family's house. I'm Gelber!"
Pole: "WE THOUGHT HITLER FINISHED YOU OFF!!! GO AWAY JEW, THIS IS OUR BAKERY NOW!!!"

Sonia: "He didn't know what to do. He spent the night in the shed behind the house. The Poles went in. They beat him and hanged him!!!"

Vladek: For THIS he survived. His brother came from the camps a day later, and only long enough stayed to bury him......(end of extract)


VB....I ask all on the forum....how many other Polish Jews were placed in a similar position?

This aspect of the Holocaust is one big, dark secret that will probably never come to light in the media, especially in Poland.....

 

Volga;

I have read several accounts of Jewish Partisans-the latest here The Defiant: A True Story of Jewish vengeance and Survival -and yes it seems to be true that large numbers of Jews were being killed by Poles during and after the War. This is the reason that the majority of the Jewish survivors fled Poland. Random thuggery and the hideous brutality of the time and place played a part, but there also was no doubt a policy amongst some elements in the Armia Krajowa to slaughter all Jews they came across. Time and time again you hear accounts of massacres in the forests of unarmed groups of refugees by elements of the AK (or was it "people posing as AK"?). Given the chaos and horror of the time-and the fact that AK was at war with the Reds- the facts are difficult to sort out; but as it has been said "anti semitism runs deep in Eastern Europe." In the above account the author went home to his newly liberated village and was awakened in the night by some policemen insisting he come along with them. Something smelled wrong and the author drove them away at the point of his Pepishaw. The author then stayed with some terrified Jewish survivors for a few nights before going back to the Army. Later he heard that the men he had stayed with all dissappeared.
JEffinMNUSA